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Three Moons of Gor, Soapbox Central

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Author	Message / Information
Kyli_	Question posted on: 9/9/2006 9:34:46 PM Tal All Goreans I come to the boards to ask a simple question to All Goreans who live by the 30 Day Rule. Is it ok for an active Gorean to be able to assign a Gorean who has returned to Gor an assignment such as an essay for a punishment. Would this not be Role Playing on the returning Gorean???? I am asking for opinions and answers since this Gorean has been OCC for a time and has returned just recently. Thank You All Kyli
Torrie	Question replied on: 9/10/2006 1:56:16 AM You didnt say if the person being assigned this essay was a slave and being punished as one. If this person had Gorean slave in their ID, they arent allowed to observe and thus exempt from the 30 day rule.slave being the operative word That's my understanding from all the posts so far on the subject. I've never heard of a FW being assigned an essay for punishment, so this is new to me. Soft Paths,
Kyli_	Question replied on: 9/10/2006 3:16:09 AM Tal Torrie: My apologizes as You are right. The person I am asking this for is indeed a Free Woman. The person does not state in her id Observing but does state the date of Her return to Gor. Kyli
Melantha	Question replied on: 9/10/2006 4:14:15 AM Here is my take on this, though it might not be popular: I feel that essays, regardless of the reason and whom applied to (Free and slave) are stepping across the line of Gorean RP Time to Reality Time. Now, I also feel if two people have spoken and agreed to such crossings, that is fine. However, as I note, it must be discussed beforehand by both parties the exact boundaries of the relationship and what is expected of each other. No one has the right to tell you what you will do in your life that stems from on-line. In the same token, one cannot be victimized in such a fashion, unless they allow it. If you feel a line of your real time has been crossed, the person has every right to speak up and say so. If they whine about something they agreed to though, that is a whole other issue. I know for myself that the time I am able to come on and devote to posts, rp, and writing stories is time I schedule out of my day for some down time. I come to enjoy, not be given homework. My husband would probably laugh at someone trying to make me do an essay and if they did't like it, he would do one of two things ~ laughs as I think of this ~. He would tell them to start paying my real time bills so they have the right to tell me what to do, or come see him face to face and see if their big enough to tell his wife what to do through him. So for me, I don't even see it mixing with the 30 day rule. I see it as crossing a line of reality. If the person agreed to it beforehand, they shouldn't whine about it now. If they didn't, they should speak up and say this is not something you will allow, find an alterntaive method in role play sense to deal out punishment. I wish you well. Emma
Grethos	Question replied on: 9/10/2006 7:52:15 AM Well to get the fact straight, The FW in question enter the Black sword tavern. She engaged in role play by greeting the two of us there. I began the process of collaring her since Fw are not aloud in the tavern's of Ar, She took off before it was completed. A few days later the adminsator of the City she is staying at contacted me. He asked if there was any way this could be resolved, as I told him I wanted to teac her a lesson for doing such...it was agreed upon that I could give the FW any punishment firring and He would back me up completly and see that it is done. I now see the words were meaning less as she is now trying to back out of the Punishment. The FW in question yes she is returning but has been in gor for a long time, she will even tell you that yourself. On a side note just before this happen she wanted to help tain one of my new slave using her non gorean name. So to me I didn't cross the line I just had a bunch of enpty words given to me, were is the Honour in that. From Your statement Emmaline then the slave should not have to do chours or do essays as punishment? Also if Your going to give the FW some info about me. I am not afraid of my past who I was or what I was. At lest my words had honour. I also was able to learn from some of the best, and saw some of the worse in action, I will use those experenice to make me a better FM. Grethos
Pierre	Question replied on: 9/10/2006 8:05:49 AM Tal, This matter involves Ar and Venna I am the administrator who contacted Grethos. Grethos was in his full right to veil strip the FW as we all know that FW entering a Tavern are fair game. I contacted Grethos, seeking a way to resolve the matter amicably, which he agreed. It is in his full right to allow the FW go free, or to collar her, 30 days or not. A free woman doesnt enter a Tavern without a specific safe passage from the Tavern, which would usualy be denied. Grethos is in his full right to let her go free and give a punishement of his choice. I accepted that condition. I may have underestimated the punishement (hoping in an admonition) but as I explained to Kyli we have to accept whatever punishement handed by Grethos. Kyli should fulfill that condition whatever her feelings about it are or whatever advices she gets. If she doess not fulfill that condition, she will be considered by Venna as an arian slave and banned from entering Venna. I will not compromise Venna's Honor for friendship or for personnal reasons. I wish you well Pierre
Melantha	Question replied on: 9/10/2006 8:11:59 AM Tal, I answered a question posed on this board. I expressed an opinion, and what I hold to be true. I believe this board is about discussion, or at least the last time I looked, discussions took place here. I didn't take a side in any matter, but again, let me restate for those that get lost, I expressed MY opinon on the question posed. Now to your personal issue and question, Grethos. I believe my post states my position simply enough on my thoughts of essays. And as to telling someone something, I will tell the same thing to people if they ask if I knew you. You were once my slave as a former character. I find no shame in that and in this preicse instance, I was asked if I knew you. I said yes, I had once been your Mistress, and I had not seen you in a while (this was the day before you IM'd me to be precise to speak), and I told Kyli to say hello. If their is some great harm in saying hello that offends your male ego, then I certainly take it back. Lastly, for those that want to play attack today. If you do not wish someone to express an opinon on the boards, then perhaps don't post a question up.
ll-Beast.Blade-ll	Question replied on: 9/10/2006 10:22:25 AM Interesting, no warning was given to the FW, he just pounced and pulled off her veils, and no I do not count asking her if she knows where she is at as a warning. Also by his own words on this thread he did not complete the action so she was not stripped nor enslaved. I happen to agree with Emmaline in regards to the essay. To me if your going to rp rp, don't sit there and take a persons real time away from what they are doing. A slave is one thing, but a Free is another. A slave you own, the free you don't. I also noted there are no rules posted at the tavern, so how would someone entering even be aware what the rules are to begin with? Now for this being between Ar and Venna, I am sorta confused, to me it was between a tavern keeper in Ar and a FW of Venna. It was not a major city to city issue but a personal conflict that once she left Ar was moot unless she of course returned there. Oh yes and btw, there were family based taverns in cities, not all were limited to men only. So saying a FW would get collared for entering any tavern is incorrect. quote: "Should I wish to enter a paga tavern, for example," I said, "you will accompany me." "In most paga taverns," he said, "free women are not permitted. In some they are." "I see," I said. To force an entry to such a place, I then understood, might necessitate an altercation, one perhaps ensuing in the exposure of my identity as the Tatrix. A common free woman, for example, might simply be forbidden to cross certain thresholds. "Too," he said, "even if commanded, I could not knowingly lead you into danger, for example, into certain sections of the city at night. It is my duty to protect the Tatrix, not to place her in jeopardy." "You are an excellent guard, Drusus," I said. "You are right, of course." "I could take you to a tavern in which families are served," he said. "It was not such a tavern I had in mind," I said. Kajira of Gor, page 122 If it had been myself involved in this matter I would have looked at plausability, her 30 days and if the actions were all valid then worked out a plausable rp agreement.
Kyli_ This message was updated on 9/10/2006 12:08:18 PM by Kyli_	Question replied on: 9/10/2006 12:06:36 PM Tal and Greetings to All Goreans: It is kinda funny how a simple question can be blown up into a huge disagreement between cities. For the record let Me make somethig perfectly clear here. )1 I never ever mentioned any names in the origanal post. I mere stated a Free returning to Gor after being gone for a time. )2. I never stated anywhere in the original post if it was a real situation that happened or a hypothisis situation. smiles )3. No Homes were ever mentioned in the original posting as this HS did this and that HS did that. If You read back to the very 1st post I made here I am simply asking for Rules and opinions on such an incident happening in Gor and would it apply to any Free who is serving their 30 Days stay period before starting to Roleplay? So far my question I see has been side tracked by a few in Gor. Now if You wish to get right down to the nitty gritty please contact me as I will not bring it to this board for further discussion, since now here seems to be My name involved along with the names of Two HomeStones. Kyli
-.Sativa.- La Sarcastica	Question replied on: 9/10/2006 12:41:14 PM i think if you are gonna roleplay, then you have to take the consequences. Kyli certainly knows the rules about taverns, and if shes forgotten due to being away, all the more reason the 30 day rule should be followed to a T. theres lots one can forget if you arent here a lot. I like Kyli, but I think the punishment should stand. and if we arent going to interfere in rt, then all of roleplay is gonna be at the whim of each individual. a fw cant be capped cos it might interfere in rt. a slave doesnt have to do any chores etc becos it may interfere with rt. if any scenario will interfere that much with your rt, maybe a leave of absence is in order, as you just cant make the committment to gor at this time. that was just a general statement, and not directed at anyone in particular.
Hasan	Question replied on: 9/10/2006 12:50:25 PM I was asked last night to view this thread and perhaps offer some input on the matter. However, this is not intended to question the sovereignty of either place, as the laws within their city only concern their cities. I consider the 30-day rule as a margin for explanation of right or wrong, the pardon of errors and relearning, once more that is my interpretation. The question is, is an essay applicable under the 30-day rule as role-play. No, an essay is not role-playing. But then I do not consider greetings as role-play either. Should we permit anyone to do anything in his or her 30-day period? Of course not, that will not teach the person anything, given the person is willing to learn. My understanding of the situation was different, the justification provided was that ANY free woman entering ANY Tavern on Gor would be faced stripped and collared, as per the books. There are several written instances of free women who visited paga taverns in the Gor books, about half the time, they behaved foolishly and wound up enslaved, like the Lady Beverly in Rogue of Gor; the rest of the time, they drank their paga and conducted their business relatively safely. There are good paga taverns and bad paga taverns, normally free women avoid the more brutal establishments. I doubt a free woman will just pop into this particular Tavern again. Face stripping a woman is a criminal offense in many places on Gor (as per the books). I will not dispute the right of any city in Halsoft to set up their laws to their liking; they are well within their right to do so, as it is within my right not to associate with the place, if I do not agree with their laws. In my opinion, the matter should have stayed off the boards, as I believe the 30-day rule and how it is practiced; it is up to the judgment of the sovereign in the city where we choose to live. The repercussions decided between two free men, was an essay, which even though I feel is an infringement on a person’s real time, to which a free person does not have to consent, remembering there is a distinct difference between Free and slave. I still support their right to decide matters within the walls of their cities and if you do not agree with their judgment, then I question why you stay. The 30-day rule is for you as well as them.
-.Sativa.- La Sarcastica	Question replied on: 9/10/2006 4:01:45 PM as this took place in Ar, Ar laws must be followed * No Free Woman in Ar may be face stripped without first being arrested and placed on trial. * -http://www.jubeiofgor.com/rulesandlawsofar.htm but it appears Kyli accepted it as she went to Pierre and asked (i am assuming here) for Him to speak to Grethos.that to me shows acceptance of the need for punishment.
Kyli_ This message was updated on 9/10/2006 7:08:05 PM by Kyli_	Question replied on: 9/10/2006 4:28:43 PM Tal Goreans: Again I ask the same question as I am not pointing fingers to any one Free here or any One Homestone in Gor. I am asking for the rules stating as such incase there were such an incident that were to happen in Gor. As I see it from a mere question and understanding of the 30 day Rules, that many Goreans cannot give specifics and answers to those who are returning to Gor after being gone aor a long time. That is fine in my book but all I ask is that when reading any post that You do no start in with who You might think did this or that, or that You do not sit back and point fingers at Homestomes because You happen not to agree with a question being asked. Now I will clear this matter up once and for all. There was a Freewoman (Kyli) who was advised in her returning to Gor to venture out and start to get to know other Goreans by the Admin of the Home where she was staying (Pierre in Venna). In doing that the FW ended up in a Tavern (in Ar) and the Fw was asked if she knew where she was by a Tavernkeep (Grethos). She made a comment hat she did know and at that moment she the TavernKeep who i may add never stated His intent rushed her and knocked her to the ground facestripping her which in Ar is against the law from what I have read. The Fw got up and left the room when she contaced (Pierre) on advise on how this needed to be taken and handled. He (Pierre) stated that He would talk to the TavernKeep and see what He could do. In doing so the FW was to return to Ar and offer an apology which she did. She got an im stating that she was to do a 500 word essay on FW and Taverns. The apology was accepted in open room. The FW never agreed to doing the essay in any way shape or form to the TavernKeep (Grethos). As of this Day she had stated she would need to speak with the Admin (Pierre) of the Home she was visiting before accepting or denying what the TavernKeep set as punishment. The Admin and the FW were never on at the same time and the Admin of the HomeStone (Pierre) offered his advice by way of offlines in yahoo. Now the essay will be handed over to the TavernKeep on it's due date as that was the agreement made between the two FreeMales. I for one disagree with the tactics of the TavernKeep as there are NO signs posted on the page of the Tavern stating NO FREEWOMEN ALLOWED. Matter of fact One has to do a lot of searching to even find the rules of Ar as there are NO links to find such rules of Ar. When I asked for the rules from Grethos He could ot supply Me with any pages of Ar Rules. I ended up getting them last night from two other Goreans who had to search for them. As for Sativa I agree to the fullest with You one the 30 day rule being played to the T. I disagree tho however that I should have known better since I have been a Free right before the Death of Ross almost 2 years ago. I have never been to a Tavern and have as His slave never been taught to stay out of them as We were in the mountains and stayed to Ourselves while I was in kajira training. When Ross Freed me was very close to His realtime Death. I then stepped back from Gor as it left a bitter taste in My mouth and took a few months off. Feb of 2005 I returned to give Gor another try. In may of that year I left my HomeStone in he hands of Rai as Regent. I took a non Gorean role in D/s where I have been until the 28th when I returned to Gor after Rai handed back the HomeStone to Me. So Sativa I have been gone almost 18 months and in that time I have had very little to do with Gor until a girl came and spoke with Me in D/s about this Gorean Male she had feelings for. I had advised her to try it and I would help as much as I could. Grewthos agrees to this as she was pure D/s.I started talking to her about the simple things such as manners in Gor as a Gorean slave. He collared her and she became as We say a subbie princess when Grethos took another slave. So in all actuality I strongly believe that the only reason I was given such an assignment was to get back at Me for helping a girl that grethos owned and He ended up selling and in the end she was killed. MY OPINION ONLY ON THIS LAST PART. Moral of this is be very careful on whom You place Your trust in when it comes to advisors. Pierre is a great Admin for Venna. Grethos I am sure is a great TavernKeep but a poor Master of Ar since He is still Green around the edges. I am a very strong willed Free Woman with alot to learn and am open to learning it from the Ones who are the Elder Goreans and the Wisest in their field. One Last comment comming from Me this strong headed Free Woman. Pierre I will apologize to You for Your trying to guide and help me in this matter. I Thank The Moderator of this board for allowing this post. Kyli
Bliss	Question replied on: 9/10/2006 5:12:36 PM personaly , hell would be selling snow cones before I would sit and write an essay. but, thats me..shrugs
LadyAngelWings	Question replied on: 9/10/2006 5:47:15 PM -looks up at the snow cones and laffs- going back to the origninal question I do not consider an essay role play. That is something outside normal level of role play something between Owner and slave, what they decide they wish their relationship to consist of exactly how indept they wish their gorean experience to reach. My opinion ofcourse and not meant to disrespect the discussion of any others. This is just reading the original post and not discussing anything that is happening between two cities or any such ongoing role play. I ofcourse in reading your additional post would not do an essay. The books were clear that not all taverns were off limits to Free Women. Last that I was aware of, face stripping in Ar was illegal. You should have been arrested and afforded a trial. I wish you the best in any decision you make. I wish you all well.
Hasan	Question replied on: 9/10/2006 6:34:26 PM Thank you Sativa for posting the link of Ar's laws, I think those involved should take the time to read them. In defense of the FW on any acceptance of any repercussions of the actions which occurred that night, she didn't. I myself advised her that the acting party was in the wrong and told her to contact her Administrator about the unjust act of face stripping and IM collaring which was committed against her. After all, in my opinion it is his job to assist the Free citizens of his city, especially in their 30 days. The whole incident should probably be dropped and chalked up to a lesson learned for all the parties involved.
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