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| Author | Message / Information |
| Lensen | From "Gook" to "Raghead" posted on: 5/2/2005 8:18:52 AM This article appeared in the op-ed column of the NY Times...what do you guys think? From 'Gook' to 'Raghead' By BOB HERBERT spent some time recently with Aidan Delgado, a 23-year-old religion major at New College of Florida, a small, highly selective school in Sarasota. On the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, before hearing anything about the terror attacks that would change the direction of American history, Mr. Delgado enlisted as a private in the Army Reserve. Suddenly, in ways he had never anticipated, the military took over his life. He was trained as a mechanic and assigned to the 320th Military Police Company in St. Petersburg. By the spring of 2003, he was in Iraq. Eventually he would be stationed at the prison compound in Abu Ghraib. Mr. Delgado's background is unusual. He is an American citizen, but because his father was in the diplomatic corps, he grew up overseas. He spent eight years in Egypt, speaks Arabic and knows a great deal about the various cultures of the Middle East. He wasn't happy when, even before his unit left the states, a top officer made wisecracks about the soldiers heading off to Iraq to kill some ragheads and burn some turbans. "He laughed," Mr. Delgado said, "and everybody in the unit laughed with him." The officer's comment was a harbinger of the gratuitous violence that, according to Mr. Delgado, is routinely inflicted by American soldiers on ordinary Iraqis. He said: "Guys in my unit, particularly the younger guys, would drive by in their Humvee and shatter bottles over the heads of Iraqi civilians passing by. They'd keep a bunch of empty Coke bottles in the Humvee to break over people's heads." He said he had confronted guys who were his friends about this practice. "I said to them: 'What the hell are you doing? Like, what does this accomplish?' And they responded just completely openly. They said: 'Look, I hate being in Iraq. I hate being stuck here. And I hate being surrounded by hajis.' " "Haji" is the troops' term of choice for an Iraqi. It's used the way "gook" or "Charlie" was used in Vietnam. Mr. Delgado said he had witnessed incidents in which an Army sergeant lashed a group of children with a steel Humvee antenna, and a Marine corporal planted a vicious kick in the chest of a kid about 6 years old. There were many occasions, he said, when soldiers or marines would yell and curse and point their guns at Iraqis who had done nothing wrong. He said he believes that the absence of any real understanding of Arab or Muslim culture by most G.I.'s, combined with a lack of proper training and the unrelieved tension of life in a war zone, contributes to levels of fear and rage that lead to frequent instances of unnecessary violence. Mr. Delgado, an extremely thoughtful and serious young man, balked at the entire scene. "It drove me into a moral quagmire," he said. "I walked up to my commander and gave him my weapon. I said: 'I'm not going to fight. I'm not going to kill anyone. This war is wrong. I'll stay. I'll finish my job as a mechanic. But I'm not going to hurt anyone. And I want to be processed as a conscientious objector.' " He stayed with his unit and endured a fair amount of ostracism. "People would say I was a traitor or a coward," he said. "The stuff you would expect." In November 2003, after several months in Nasiriya in southern Iraq, the 320th was redeployed to Abu Ghraib. The violence there was sickening, Mr. Delgado said. Some inmates were beaten nearly to death. The G.I.'s at Abu Ghraib lived in cells while most of the detainees were housed in large overcrowded tents set up in outdoor compounds that were vulnerable to mortars fired by insurgents. The Army acknowledges that at least 32 Abu Ghraib detainees were killed by mortar fire. Mr. Delgado, who eventually got conscientious objector status and was honorably discharged last January, recalled a disturbance that occurred while he was working in the Abu Ghraib motor pool. Detainees who had been demonstrating over a variety of grievances began throwing rocks at the guards. As the disturbance grew, the Army authorized lethal force. Four detainees were shot to death. Mr. Delgado confronted a sergeant who, he said, had fired on the detainees. "I asked him," said Mr. Delgado, "if he was proud that he had shot unarmed men behind barbed wire for throwing stones. He didn't get mad at all. He was, like, 'Well, I saw them bloody my buddy's nose, so I knelt down. I said a prayer. I stood up, and I shot them down.' " |
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MidgetIdjit
Clan Treasurer |
From
replied on: 5/2/2005 9:27:05 AM quote: Amen Brother! Seriously though, if the problem is as widespread as he claims, I imagine that there would be many more reports and new stories. quote: So the preference is that the GI's live in the tents while the prisoners are in the cells? Sorry, I don't have any sympathy for criminals killed by other criminals. |
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Lensen
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From
replied on: 5/2/2005 10:02:41 AM LOl, yeah, I was thinking to myself, "who's fault is it if they start shelling their own people?" I mean, that's the equivalent of calling in a few rounds on your own positions "Broken arrow! Broken Arrow!", and not expecting any casualties from friendly fire. |
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Guy Sajer
Clan Match Team Commander This message was updated on 5/6/2005 9:36:06 AM by Guy Sajer |
From
replied on: 5/2/2005 10:19:28 AM Nope. I don't feel bad at all either. You're at war. If were in South East Asia you should call them gooks. You have to HATE your enemy to survive and win. Collateral damage sometimes occurs and thats to be expected. If were in Africa I expect the soldiers to call them niggers, or canoe lips...and if the hyper-sensitive public cries?? You dont seem them complaining now or when the practice was done in Vietnam, or even WWII with the Japanese. Call them brain washed hypocrites who consistently fell/fall for the blacks you owe me something whine. The sad thing is it would so happen if we were in Africa  I'm tired of reverse racism...so very tired....STOP EDITING MY POSTS!!! How can you cringe and act how you do in regard to derogatory slang aimed at blacks and then ignore those created for arabs or asians??? BRAIN WASHED!!! If youre gonna edit chink, then edit spooky and sand niggers too. Hypocrite!!!  I WON'T STOP DEFENDING MY POST WOOKIE!! Quit trying to censor me!! Based on the context of the coversation my usage is completely acceptable. YOU my friend, are missing the point entirely. Really? Yes..REALLY! ARE U SURE REALLY REALLY? YES, I AM REALLY REALLY SURE!! JUST HOW SURE ARE U? VERY SURE!! YOU DO SOUND SURE!!! I sho is massa! your leaning I is? you ares lol well that was my last word on this post lol post nazie!!! Yay!!! Well...a bitter sweet yay
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MidgetIdjit
Clan Treasurer |
From
replied on: 5/2/2005 11:32:45 AM The gook's got a point.
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Guy Sajer
Clan Match Team Commander |
From
replied on: 5/2/2005 11:44:18 AM quote: Yay!!! |
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Major Damage
Minor Repairs This message was updated on 5/2/2005 12:03:33 PM by Major Damage |
Gooks/Hajis/ and other faceless enemies
replied on: 5/2/2005 12:00:28 PM a few thoughts: 1) Killing people is a dark business. Dark humor is part of dealing with it. People who don't have to do the fighting may find it tasteless but unless they go on the line, they should shut up. 2) Racism is no good. In the end the best way to defeat the enemy is to understand them. Turning them into 2-D cariacatures does not provide much tactical or strategic advantange, although for those who don't want to think too much, or have doubts about killing it may make the killing easier. 3) John Kerry gave testimony about the "Winter Soldier" findings which gave the impression that every soldier in Vietnam was a war criminal. This outraged many Veterans who thought they were doing the good guys work in Vietnam. Same thing in Iraq - for every thuggish U.S. soldier there are many more kind hearted ones trying to make things better - handing out candy, smiling, rebuilding schools. The Military leadership knows that you can't win an insurgency by brutalizing the civilian populace (that's Soviet style tactics!) Those good works don't get as much attention from the MSM. It is unfair to the good guys doing their job that they get painted with the broad brush that describes the losers. 4) Many soldiers are teenagers, or early 20s. We ask our youth to do our dirty work, yet they are not finished growing up! The same guys who may be breaking coke bottles over Iraqi heads were probably playing mailbox baseball, or drive-by paintball at home. I heard in England (and Wales, etc dammit) that the latest thug hobby is to video tape the random punching of people on the street. 5) I would have given the report more creedence if the guy was not a consciencious objector. If he was a genunine whistle blower pointing out abuses, I would praise him, but CO application means he's got an axe to grind, and his complaints about other soldiers may be a smoke screen to obscure his "wimp out" |
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Ghost Of Gallipoli
I don't say CRIKEY! |
From
replied on: 5/2/2005 1:27:39 PM quote: the thing is not all at abu graib were "criminals". often they were people rounded up to be checked for connections to insurgences. many were released later. |
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Marineman
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From
replied on: 5/2/2005 1:42:16 PM No comment at this time. |
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Maduin
I'm Not Maudlin: Effusively or tearfully sentimental |
From
replied on: 5/2/2005 7:31:46 PM It's not right to abuse other or no reason other then you hate being in a place you hate. and as we all know nothing is done abut it till it gets on the news then and only then is it looked into but nothing happens. yes even the almighty american army can comite war crimes.....i know its a shock but it happens. this makes me so mad i dont want to say any more! |
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Gen Lee Wasted
Official Squookie |
From
replied on: 5/2/2005 7:39:57 PM quote: yeah waiting to come to your own conclusion? |
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DrunkenMaster
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From
replied on: 5/3/2005 7:05:15 AM I don't see any reason to break bottles over civilians heads and kick children. Assuming those reports are true. It's one thing to take it out on the insurgents killing your buddies, but leave the civilians out of it. You're creating more insurgency that way, not stopping it. I will agree, however, that war doesn't work if you have any sympathy for your enemy. But you have to know who the enemy is (which can also be difficult sometimes). |
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SHAGWOOKIE
Unofficial Instigator Canadien |
From
replied on: 5/3/2005 8:31:08 AM quote: could you comment on this comment please  wookie |
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MidgetIdjit
Clan Treasurer |
From
replied on: 5/3/2005 12:12:07 PM Mommy, what's an igngre? |
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SHAGWOOKIE
Unofficial Instigator Canadien |
From
replied on: 5/3/2005 1:06:42 PM quote: ask the Gooky
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