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philfred
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Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves?
replied on: 10/16/2006 7:12:25 PM From Sanderson's 1835 map the spelling agrees with previous posting. It is spelt as one word "Oldgreave". The area was out-cropped (opencast in new speak but still makes a mess) by Taylor Woodrow in the mid 50s. regards Phil |
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philfred
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Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves?
replied on: 10/16/2006 9:14:10 PM Hello Bennerley, I got myself in a right state trying to fathom out the german connection. I pumped in coalpit into a translation page and out came Kohlengrube. It then became clear, I would imagine the Old German form of grube and the local dialect mangling it to form greave. Or was the roof of the mine supported by something resembling greaves ( shin armour) or was it so low you had to wear them as protection(knee pads). I started off many moons ago at Moorgreen Training Centre finishing my mining career at Ollerton Collliery. regards Phil |
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philfred
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Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves?
replied on: 10/22/2006 2:18:42 PM Yet again, this is what I found in A General Dictionary of Provincialisms by William Holloway, published 1839. quote GROOVE, s [Gruben, Teut. to delve] A mine or shaft. Derby. York.unquote Could there be a Newgroove nearby ? regards Phil |
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philfred
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Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves?
replied on: 12/2/2006 2:00:08 PM Just to add to the confusion two more meanings, greave a scottish term for farm manager and derived from the saxon, an officer responsible for collecting the lord's taxes. I would assume lord to mean lord of the manor since it is spelt with a lower case l. I thought that it would be worth putting these two meanings on the thread. Both could fit in with farming very well. regard Phil |
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bennerley
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Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves?
replied on: 12/6/2006 12:05:02 PM There are about 7 recently modern meanings of Greave - including Scottish tax collectors, whale fat, gravel, brushwood and thicket, mine/pit and shin armour. Lower leg or shin armour - greaves - is from Old French greve. Since Allgrave was opencast for coal recently and The History of Mining mentions mine soughs plus the fact that mining for minerals and coal, in this area dates back to Saxon times I feel the old farm is named, as on Burdett's map, for the Old Mines. Oldgreave, Ouldgreave, Oldgroaves etc derive originally from the Old Saxon graefa (modern computers do not have the appropriate letters!) OS graefa = grove & greave = mine, pit. A parallel with what is now Allgrave/Owlgreave etc., is Youlgreave = old greave =old mine or mines (The Alport, Youlgreave area was a major lead mining region). Near Sheldon is Fieldgrove mine also known as Field Groove,Field Rake. In Derbyshire from at least the 13th century miners were known as groovers and mines as grooves. In the Mendips the same terms applied but in Swaledale there is a slight difference in that gruve = a lead mine & a gruver was a lead miner. In Northumberland a grove was a mine and a grove-hole was a footrill/drift/adit. So you have the Old Saxon root and then the immigration of German miners, invited for example by Elizabeth I, who brought with them German terms derived from Old Teutonic grad (the d should have the slashed line through it -computer limitations again!) =mine,pit From this comes: Old High German gruoba Old Middle German gruobe Modern German grube = mine,pit Hope this helps - by the way philfred can you imagine crawling across 23s face in leg armour? Since I had to do it twice without kneepads leg armour would have been welcome. bennerley. |
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Iceboy53
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Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves?
replied on: 1/21/2007 12:55:38 PM looking at this old thread and comparing it with the old maps...i noticed there is an "algrave hall farm in shipley near where the garden centre is now...is there some sort of link here or am on the wrong path. |
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RMMee
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Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves?
replied on: 1/21/2007 11:30:04 PM Ice Yes, that's undoubtedly connected - see the earlier discussions in this thread when the farm is mentioned a couple of times. |
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Iceboy53
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Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves?
replied on: 1/22/2007 5:39:07 PM yes your right i should have done my homework and look at the start of the threads in the future... |
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Iceboy53
Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 1/22/2007 5:44:26 PM by Iceboy53 |
Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves?
replied on: 1/22/2007 5:39:46 PM post deleted..sorry...when i did the post i can't back to the threads again and it's posting me twice. |
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