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| Jennypeg Researcher Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 9/8/2005 7:11:45 PM by RMMee | Tag Hill, Askey Sic, and Four Bums Inn posted on: 5/30/2005 2:08:31 AM Heanor a long time ago! RIPLEY AND HEANOR NEWS FRIDAY 4TH JULY 1975 WHEN HEANOR HAD ONLY TWO STREETS Tag Hill era recalled HEANOR 1867 – A vastly different place to the thriving market town of modern times, But a glance through our files revealed this account of old Heanor as recalled by a lady who arrived in the town more than 100 years ago. “I first set foot in Heanor at Langley Mill Station in March 1867. I walked up Heanor Lane, as Mansfield Road was then called. How different it was in those days! After passing the Baptist Chapel there were three or four cottages, and the house in which Mr. Bakewell, the manager of the Gas Works lived, with a lovely clematis jackmanni over the door. After passing the Horse and Jockey there were no houses except one by the brickyard, and a row till one reached the residence of Mr. George Gregory, and the weigh house on the left hand side at the bottom of what is now Holbrook Street. There was no footpath but many fine trees’, which in some places met overhead. One had to walk, as there was nothing to drive in in those days. In later years there was a cab, which you could hire from the Red Lion and for a time Mrs. Hickman ran an omnibus which met the trains. This afterwards was used to convey infectious cases to Calladine House. TWO STREETS I, think there were only two so-called streets Mount Street and Nelson Street. Other places were named Tag Hill, the City, Kingstown, Peacock Town, Back Lane, Boggart Town, Camomile Row, Nackey Row, Hard Meadow, Wood End, Wood Yard, Tan Yard, The Rookery, Red Hill, Workhouse Yard, Eggleshaw’s Row, Burton’s Row, Nigger Row, North Row, Nook End, Apsey Sic, Chain Row, The Alma, Fishponds, Coach Road, Barrack Yard and Providence Place. New America was the name given to the triangle formed by Wellington Street, Watkinson Street and Loscoe Road, which was then far away from the houses. There were few shops in the old days but Thomas Hardy, the draper below the Church, had a house inscribed, “1699 rebuilt 1800.” RED LION The Red Lion was old with a pear tree trained along its wall, and a tiny garden in front, and next below you went up some steps into a grocer’s shop, I remember the old Church - it was smaller, having but one aisle – there was a three-Decker pulpit, and square pews with doors to them and a gallery at the west end, the choir sat in it with the harmonium. The vestry was in the tower with a small door into it, the principal entrance being on the south side, where there was a porch. When the old church was pulled down services were held in the National School, but baptisms and marriages took place in the vestry. I was a bridesmaid there and proud of writing my name in the parish register as a witness. The registers dated back in 1559. The new church was opened on 2 November 1868. There is a chair in the choir vestry which was in the old Church, and the cup and pattern for the Holy Communion are still used; the oak altar was small for the larger building and is now in Marlpool Church. ONE FACE The clock had one face and had no chimes. The curfew was rung at eight o’clock and at seven o’clock on Saturdays. When I was a child there were only the National School and the Aldercar School. Boys used to walk to Smalley, where many Heanor boys could go to school. We had only one post in and one out, with a Sunday delivery and despatch at Langley Mill. The post office was at Tag Hill at the bottom of Mount Street and the postmistress was Miss Agnes Roscoe. Letters were taken to Derby by mail cart. There were no banks in Heanor then and neither was there a printing press. Dr Woolley was the only resident doctor, with a surgery at Codnor. Among the characters who came to church was blind John Poundall; instead of kneeling he would stand, hold his top hat in front of his face and say his prayers into it. He would travel alone to Nottingham from Langley Mill, and the well-known couplet refers to him: John Poundall, of Heanor Kissed his wife before he’d seen her. The wakes was a great time, attended by huge crowds and we also had much excitement when Ladysmith was relieved. FASHIONS And what changes in fashions! I wore half a crinolene and steel bands were inserted in the back of a foundation, the ends being tied with tapes. This gave place to a bustle, which getting smaller and smaller at length disappeared. We always wore a bonnet and walked out of doors in boots. People drove about the town in a gig, a landau, a Victoria, a cab, a fly, a Stanhope, a dogcart, a trap, a governess cart, or a barouche and then the bicycle appeared. There were no streetlights, we were governed by a local board and the population was under 5,000. At Marlpool there was a big windmill but this has gone and so has Marlpool Pond. What different place Heanor was in my youth! |
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Azzabuv
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Tag Hill
replied on: 5/30/2005 4:55:38 PM R.E. Apsey Sic as above. The name Apsey originated in Lancs. and Somerset. For the name as given in Jennypeg's article, the name translates from the O-English aeps - aespe - aspen. The M-English name being apse - apps, making the name a description of 'Someone who lives near an Aspen Tree, (or Aspen tree grove,) near a small stream. (Sic this time indicating a stream). Would this indicate Apsey Sic as being, perhaps, near the Fishponds? |
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RMMee
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Tag Hill
replied on: 5/30/2005 7:23:34 PM I think this Aspey Sic will be a variant of Askey or Askew Sic, which is discussed elsewhere, being towards the bottom of the Marlpool Estate. |
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Azzabuv
Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 5/31/2005 1:02:38 AM by Azzabuv |
Tag Hill
replied on: 5/31/2005 12:19:10 AM Nope... they're two different names, Robert. I've just rechecked it all in the book. Simply put and not counting the whole translation, Apps (Aspey) refers to SOME/THING/ONE to do with, or connected solely with the Aspen Tree. Askew relates similarly to the Oak tree. Sic, according to various translation/derivation meanings, can at times apply to a well, or a spring. Also, don't forget the unknown lady of 1867, gave the information from the 'horses mouth', as they say and she was describing Heanor, not Marlpool. Azzabuv. |
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RMMee
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Tag Hill
replied on: 5/31/2005 6:25:06 AM I'm not convinced Azzabuv - without a doubt, the word derivations are different, but I need to be convinced that there were two such place names in the Heanor area. As it is, I had seen Askey Sic spelled in several different ways, so Aspey Sic could quite easily be another variant (or even a printer's typo!). As for Askey Sic being in Marlpool - Marlpool was not a separate location - it was as much a part of Heanor as any of the other places mentioned. |
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Azzabuv
Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 5/31/2005 1:51:28 PM by Azzabuv |
Tag Hill
replied on: 5/31/2005 12:57:34 PM I was wrong, Robert. The unknown Lady DID describe Marlpool - twice. This is at the end of her renderings of old Heanor. She seems to have distinctly differentiated between Heanor and Marlpool, mentioning Apsey Sic in connection with the former. I think we'll have to wait till someone with a thicker tome and older map comes along... BUT - i will go rash and wager as high as 5/- on this interpretation.................. Azzabuv. |
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Jennypeg
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Tag Hill
replied on: 6/10/2005 7:55:07 AM could someone explain this to me did they join the army or in training for boxing or ? and the "four Bms Inn" ? Dec 1858 Heanor A deposit of £2 a-side was made on Monday November 29th, at Mr Osborne’s, “four Bms Inn” Taghill, between William Calladine and James Prince, and another deposit of £1 a-side is to be made on Monday next at the same place. William Calladine is gone into active training at Cotmanhay, whilst James Prince has taken up his quarters at Mr Osborne’s, under the watchful eye of the well-known E. Stainesby, better known by the name of “Rabbi”. |
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Azzabuv
Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 6/10/2005 11:11:45 AM by Azzabuv |
Tag Hill
replied on: 6/10/2005 11:11:15 AM Hi, Jenny. It sounds like they were in training for a good old bare-knuckle 'boxing' contest. R.E. the Inn. Well, that's a good one. In 1857, there were two Osborne's listed for Heanor. Adam Osborne, furniture broker and Jno. Osborne, boot and shoemaker, of the Common. But the Inn's name is a new one on me. 'Bms' - Boot/shoe manufacturers?, but in an inn? The number four is a puzzler too, as yet. |
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Jennypeg
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Tag Hill
replied on: 6/21/2005 2:29:32 PM Hi, I've found a little bit more about The Four Bums Beer-house. Jenny Ilkeston Pioneer 30th June 1859 Heanor Beer-house Information. – Mrs Osborne, of Tagg Hill, landlady of the Four Bums Beer-house, was charged by Sergeant Brady with keeping her house open for the sale of beer at a quarter past 11 o’clock p.m. on the 18th instant. The constable stated that he visited the house at the time just named, and there found a number of persons, and some of them were playing at dominoes, and her son was in the cellar drawing drink: he asked Osborne if he knew what time it was, when he replied that it was not 11 o’clock, at the same time pulling out his watch; he then said it was 11 ¼. Mrs Osborne said that the house did not belong to her but to her son, and that there was nothing wrong on the night in question, and called David Turton, who, on appearing said, Gentlemen I am no speaker (laughter), and then commenced to relate what the sign of the Four Bums meant, he said it meant a policeman, a parish constable, and two bum-bailiffs. The Bench ordered Mrs Osborne to pay 11s. 6d. and to be more cautious in future, and not to lend her name to appear on sign-boards. |
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RMMee
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Tag Hill
replied on: 6/21/2005 6:29:50 PM Going back to the first post in this thread, I have found that the Society has previously printed part of this article, and when we did so we recorded "Askey Sic," not "Apsey Sic." Not sure where the mistake came in, but I am convinced that Apsey is a mistake! |
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Azzabuv
Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 6/22/2005 12:40:25 PM by Azzabuv |
Tag Hill
replied on: 6/22/2005 12:38:40 PM Unless, Robert, there's a record of some Aspen trees, or Aspen tree copse in Heanor, once, somewhere? It does seem as if she was listing different Heanor names by adjascent areas? You could be correct though. Time to launch the Aspen tree(s) search. Azzabuv. |
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Jennypeg
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Tag Hill
replied on: 6/22/2005 1:09:17 PM Hi, I’ve rechecked the news clipping (4th July 1975 Ripley & Heanor) and it’s Apsey Sic, but on the Marlpool M.I.s I’ve found C30 in loving memory of Ellen Taylor (of Askey Sick) who died July 21st 1887 aged 79 years. Jenny |
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suegill
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Tag Hill
replied on: 6/22/2005 4:03:57 PM From Roger Hellings transcription of the first part of the cemetery records - Ellen TAYLOR Relict of Samuel Taylor 73 Marlpool Heanor 2958 25/07/1887 |
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RMMee
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Tag Hill
replied on: 6/22/2005 6:45:30 PM I suspect that it was a typo by the newspaper in 1975 - just can't go along with a search for aspens! |
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Jennypeg
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Tag Hill
replied on: 6/22/2005 8:15:12 PM Hi Sue, I've check the deaths: on the Heanor Marlpool Cemetery 1858-1912 it is: Taylor 2407 Ellen Taylor relict of Samuel Taylor 73 Marlpool Heanor 2958 25th July 1887 and on the Heanor Memorial Inscriptions its: C30 In / Loving memory of Ellen Taylor / (of Askey Sick) who died July 21st 1887 / aged 79 years / also William son of the above / who died Dec 21 1910 / aged 78 years / he giveth his beloved sleep (slate headstone) so I looked up William and: 5874 Taylor 5868 William Taylor Tailor 78 yrs Askye sick Marlpool 2958 , 22 December 1910 so we have two dates that are different from the M.I.s and another spelling for Askey! so its always best to cross check, next time I'm at Matlock or the cemetery i will look the dates up. Jenny |
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suegill
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Tag Hill
replied on: 6/23/2005 12:37:31 AM The date in the cemetery record is the date of burial so it could still be right. Sue |
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