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| porkpiebaby Quote | Reply | | Abbott/Slack/Clarke posted on: 10/7/2006 1:25:12 PM I'm researching the Clarke Family of Loscoe/Codnor. One of my Clarkes, Ann, married William Slack and they were living with her parents John and Hannah Clarke (nee Slack...sure there must be a connection there somewhere!) in the 1841 census. Along with the other Clarke children, there was also a one year old child called homas Abbott living with them. I'm trying to find out who he is and where he came from, how he came to be living with this family. Can anyone help please? |
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suegill
Researcher Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 10/7/2006 2:26:03 PM by suegill |
Abbott/Slack/Clarke
replied on: 10/7/2006 2:11:13 PM He's (Thomas) still living with them in 1851 and listed as "visitor". His bithplace is listed as Codnor. In 1861 Thomas Abbott (20), Miner; William Clarke (25), Miner; Jarvis Abbott (26), Miner are all living in the household of Thomas and Georgeanor Pepperday (Langley Mill Rd, Codnor)and are listed as nephews. I can't find Jarvis Abbott on any previous census. Jarvis' birthplace is listed as Codnor Sue |
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Jennypeg
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Abbott/Slack/Clarke
replied on: 10/7/2006 2:59:06 PM Codnor Church 337 13th Aug 1866 Gervis Abbott 31yrs bachelor miner of Codnor father Thomas Abbott miner, Emma Calron 30yrs spinster no occupation of Loscoe father Henry Calron butcher wit by Henry Harrison & Elizabeth Beecroft. 344 12th Jan 1867 Thomas Abbott 24yrs bachelor stoker of Hunslet father Matthew Abbott farmer Emily Moon 27yrs spinster no occupation of Codnor father James Moon blacksmith wit by John Moon & Elizabeth Smith. |
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porkpiebaby
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Abbott/Slack/Clarke
replied on: 10/7/2006 4:34:52 PM Thanks Sue and Jenny for your kind replies... I'm not quite sure what to make of them or where to link them in! However, some of the info kind of rang a bell and I checked my records... Codnor St James 29th Jan 1852 James Clarke full age Bachelor Miner of Codnor father John Clarke F.W.K., Amy Hicking full age spinster no occupation of Codnor father William Hicking Publican witnessed by Thomas Pepperday & Charlotte Abbott. Obviously Thomas Pepperday could be the same one and Charlotte Abbott could be related to Thomas Abbott. I'm still not sure whether I can piece it all together thought o make any sort of sense! |
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porkpiebaby
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Abbott/Slack/Clarke
replied on: 10/7/2006 5:13:56 PM In 1871 he is living on Nottingham Road with his wife Emma and children Amos and Joseph...next door to Thomas and Georgiana Pepperday. None of this actually explains why he was living with the Clarke family really though does it? |
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loomis
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Abbott/Slack/Clarke
replied on: 10/7/2006 8:47:00 PM I think I may be able to shed some light on the Thomas Abbott/Pepperday connection. Gervase Pepperday b.1774 was my gggg grandfather. Two of his children were Joseph (b.Codnor 1803) and Elizabeth (b.Codnor 1804.) Elizabeth married Thomas Abbott (b.1802.) Joseph had children Thomas( b.1833) and Georgiana (b.1835), and these would seem to be the householders. In all probability the young Thomas Abbott would be the grandchild of Thomas and Elizabeth Abbott,therefore Thomas and Georgiana Pepperday would be his aunt and uncle. Thomas Pepperday later married Sarah Brown, and they moved to Hunslet,from where their daughter Susannah, and son Fred later emigrated to Pennsylvania, where a whole colony of Pepperdays abounds. Incidentally I have more than ninety Pepperdays in my family tree. If anyone requires information on this family they are welcome to contact me. |
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porkpiebaby
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Abbott/Slack/Clarke
replied on: 10/7/2006 9:43:57 PM I can definitely see now how the Peppardays and Abbots link together...I've drawn all your information out into a tree that makes visual sense and that helped. However, it still doesn't tell me why the Clarkes brought Thomas Abbott up! Weren't relatives peculiar things! |
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loomis
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Abbott/Slack/Clarke
replied on: 10/7/2006 11:31:20 PM Looking back to Jennypeg's reply, the marriage register at Codnor church shows the young Thomas Abbott, now aged 24, upon his marriage to Emily Moon in 1866 as living in Hunslet(Leeds). This is where his uncle Thomas Pepperday moved to from Codnor, so it would seem that Thomas moved there with him. Thomas Abbott does not appear to have lived with his father, Matthew Abbott, at least not from the age of one. Could this be due to his mother dying while he was in his infancy and his being brought up by other family members ? A search of the B.M.D. register might be useful. It may also be worth checking If Joseph Pepperday's daughter Diana (b.1808) married a Clarke, as this would explain both the young Abbott and Clarke as being the nephews of Thomas and Georgiana Pepperday. I know for certain that Joseph Pepperday's remaining daughter Mary was not a Clarke as she was my ggg grandmother and married William Morley. Phew !! Does any of this make sense, or have I had too many heavy suppers ? |
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loomis
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Abbott/Slack/Clarke
replied on: 10/8/2006 8:20:57 PM Re. my previous posting I wrongly described Diana and Mary Pepperday as Joseph Pepperday's daughters when in fact they were his sisters. However, I may have been on the right track as I have a copy of the marriage certificate of their other brother James (b. 1818) to AVIS CLARKE in 1845. If it could be established that Avis were a member of the same Clarke family,( her father's name being shown as William on the marriage certificate) then it would tie the Abbott, Clarke and Pepperday families together, bearing in mind that the Pepperday's other sister Elizabeth married Thomas Abbott senior. Thomas Abbott junior and William Clarke could ostensibly have been cousins, as they are both shown on the Census return as nephews of Thomas and Georgiana Pepperday, Where's Inspector Frost when you need him ? |
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loomis
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Abbott/Slack/Clarke
replied on: 10/9/2006 7:53:28 PM Just a thought Porkpiebaby, but when Gervase Pepperday married Ellen Slack in 1804 she already had an illegitimate daughter called Hannah, born 1801. If this were the same Hannah Slack who married Mr Clarke, then it would tie up the complete Abbott/Slack/Clarke/Pepperday relationship. Do you have details of their marriage ? |
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porkpiebaby
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Abbott/Slack/Clarke
replied on: 10/9/2006 11:14:52 PM Loomis.... That is the missing link in all of this! Sorry guys that i haven't been able to respond sooner...your help is much appreciated. Hannah Slack born c. 1801 married John Clarke also born c. 1801 on 25th March 1822. I haven't got much on Hannah, but here's info on John: 1841 aged 40 living in Codnor a stocking maker 1851 aged (54?) a framework knitter living at Bullock Yard, Codnor Noted as a FWK (farmworker?) at his son James' marriage in 1852. Their children were Ann, James, John, Thomas and William. I'm going to have to spend a bit of time piecing the Pepperday/Abbot story to this, but almost certainly this is the link I was hoping for...linking it all into the Clarkes. It also gives me Ellen Slack, who is effectively my 4x great grandmother! Thank you so much! Strangely, I know at least two other people who have Pepperdays in their families...and I'm certain that Gervaise is one of them! It means I'm related to my oldest friend! |
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loomis
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Abbott/Slack/Clarke
replied on: 10/10/2006 11:23:00 AM Pleased I could be of assistance Porkpiebaby. The outcome of all this is that Thomas & Jarvis Abbott, William Clarke & his siblings, and Thomas & Georgiana Pepperday were cousins. If Thomas Abbott and William Clarke were staying with the Pepperdays on census night, they would be described as nephews, which was their relationship to the head of the household, Joseph Pepperday and his wife. By the way, F.W.K stands for Framework Knitter, a common occupation among the Pepperdays who originated from Barrowden in Rutland, but moved to Hathern in Leicestershire (where Gervase was born), and in the early part of the 19th century, due to the agricultural crisis, more of them moved to the Heanor area to find work in the mines. |
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porkpiebaby
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Abbott/Slack/Clarke
replied on: 10/10/2006 9:37:48 PM To all who helped...firstly, it seems that Gervase Pepparday born 1774 was my friend's 5x great grandad, so we are definitely related! I need to run by you what I understand of all the information you have shared with me.Please bear with me for being so slow, I just had to make a pictorial family tree for myself to see what I understand and what I don't! Sorry it's a long one. Please forgive me if I get it wrong or aske the same questions again, and please forgive me if you read this on two different sites! Ok here we go... Gervase Pepparday (b1774) married Ellen Slack in 1804. Firstly, Ellen Slack has an illegitimate child, Hannah Slack (b1801) who married John Clarke (m 1801) in 1822. Their children were Ann, James, John, Thomas and William. (This William is the same William found in the house of Thomas and Georgiana Pepperday in 1861) Secondly, once married, Gervase Pepparday (b1774) and Ellen Slack have children Elizabeth (b1804) Thomas (b1807) and Joseph (b1803). I'm sure there are other children but can't get my head round the rest of them...can someone please confirm using surnames and dates of birth so I know which they are?! Elizabeth Pepparday(b1804) marries Thomas Abbott (b1802) and they have (I think, please put me straight if I'm wrong!) two children, Gervis Abbott (b1835) and Thomas Abbott (b1840). This Thomas Abbott is the child who is brought up by the aforementioned Hannah (illegitimate daughter of Ellen Slack)and John Clarke. Joseph Pepparday (b1803) has two children, Thomas Pepparday (b1833) and Georgiana (b1835) who are the owners of the house where William Clarke, Thomas Abbott and Gervis Abbot are residing in 1861. Thomas and Georgiana are in fact siblings, which is contrary to some information I've received so far, which suggests they may be married! Therefore, the Abbott children Gervis and Thomas, the Pepparday children Thomas and Georgiana and The Clarke children Anne, James, John, Thomas and william are all cousins together. (NOT nephews as stated in one piece of information) I do know there have been other people mentioned, and other scenarios. Jenny...you mentioned that Thomas Abbott was in fact the son of a Matthew Abbott as documented in the marriage details. Does anyone know where Matthew Abbott fits into this lot?? I can't find where he goes as I have Thomas as the son of Thomas and Elizabeth as earlier mentioned. Gardener...you quote a census from 1851 where Thomas Abbott is married to rebecca with a whole array of children... do we understand this is Thomas Abbott, the remarried father of Gervis and Thomas with his new family? Thank you all so much for helping me to piece all this together...can you put me straight if I'm miles off? Thank you! |
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Jennypeg
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Abbott/Slack/Clarke
replied on: 10/11/2006 7:21:44 AM Codnor Church 22nd April 1865 Thomas Abbott 24 bachelor collier of Codnor father Thomas Abbott collier of Codnor Emma Riley 24 spinster no occupation of Codnor father Samuel Riley Banksman wit Samuel Riley Harriet Riley. 28th Dec 1858 Thomas Abbott 26 bachelor Engineer of Christ Church Blackfiars, Surrey father William Abbott Engineer. Ruth Smedley 23yrs spinster no occupation of Codnor father William Smedley miner wit by W Abbott and S Smedley. 12th Aug 1856 Thomas Mitchell 26 bachelor F.W.K. of Hathern father James Mitchell F.W.K. Charlotte Abbott 31 spinster no occupation of Codnor father Thomas Abbott collier wit by Sarah Mitchell & Jane Brunt. |
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loomis
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Abbott/Slack/Clarke
replied on: 10/11/2006 7:25:26 PM Porkpiebaby, I will try to fill in a few ancestral details for you. Have a wide sheet of paper handy ! Ellen (Eleanor) Slack b.1778 was the daughter of Joseph Slack b. Heanor 1730 and Mary Birkumshire b. Heanor 1773. Ellen married Gervase Pepperday b. Hathern 1774. Gervase's father was William Pepperday b.- 1755, he married Elizabeth George b.Long Whatton 1744. Elizabeth's parents were Thomas George b.Long Whatton 1711 and Mary - b. Long Whatton c.1715. Ellen's illegitimate daughter, Hannah, you already have details of. Gervase and Ellens kids were :- Joseph b. Normanton (on Soar?)1803, Elizabeth b. Heanor 1804, Diana b. 1808 Pentrich, Samuel b. 1812 Selston, Mary. b.1815 Codnor, and James b. 1818 Codnor. Joseph married Susanna Skerritt b. 1824 Alfreton. Their kids were :- William b. 1831 Swanwick, Sarah b.1831 Pentrich, Thomas b.1833 Codnor, Georgiana b.1835 Codnor, Diana b.1835 Codnor, Ann b.c1836 Codnor, Ellen b.1843 Belper, Walter b.1846 Codnor. Elizabeth married Thomas Abbott. Their kids were Thomas b. c.1840 and Jarvis. Diana - no details. Samuel married Charlotte Rigley b.Cottingham, Northants 1812. Their kids were :- Jarvais b. 1838 Heanor, Thomas b. 1842 Heanor, Jemima b. 1846 Heanor, and Gillian b. 1850 Heanor. Mary (my g.g.grandmother) married William Morley b. 1813 Ilkeston. Their kids were :- George Morley b.1837, Thomas Morley b.1840, Samuel Pepperday Morley b.1842, William Morley b.1845, Joseph Morley b.1848, Charlotte Morley b.1850, Gervase Morley b.1850, and Abraham Morley (my g.grandfather) b.1852, all at Codnor. James married Avis Clark b. Codnor 1823. Their kids were :- Ellen b.1850 Codnor, Georgiana b.1853 Codnor, and Hannah b.1859 Codnor. Note how the christian names recur. Gervase Pepperday had two siblings, Thomas b. 1776 Heanor, and Mary b.1780 Hathern. Both were registered with their surname spelt Peberdy. Thomas married Ruth Mellor b. Heanor 1777. Their grandson Edward, b. Ruddington 1837 was registered under the surname Peabody, and his family retain that surname to this day. I have a complete record of this lineage. Pepperdays, Peberdays and Peabodys are all of the same stock, but at that time most were illiterate and surname registrations were recorded as pronounced. Hope this fills in a few gaps. |
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porkpiebaby
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Abbott/Slack/Clarke
replied on: 10/14/2006 9:46:51 AM Loomis, I've now got time to marry the info I have with my tree, and if it's ok I'll ask you a few questions along the way! You've been a star! Joseph Slack b. 1730 and Mary Bircumshire b 1773 parents of Ellen Slack b 1778... Surely Mary must have been born before then since Ellen was born in 1778? Thanks |
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