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Iceboy53
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St Michael vs St Lawrence
replied on: 12/11/2006 11:08:28 PM Michael the Archangel The feast of the Apparition of Saint Michael commemorates the 6th century appearance of the archangel on Mount Gargano near Manfredonia in southern Italy. Michael requested a church built in his honor at the site. If you find medals or holy cards with 'relics' of Michael, they are probably rock chips from the cave, or pieces of cloth that have touched it. so was he of italian blood then tempus ???? |
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tempus275
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St Michael vs St Lawrence
replied on: 12/13/2006 9:58:10 PM lol, dunno St Micheal is oftern used for ex pagan site or sites that were on hilltops... annoyingly the other "major" saint that just as much used in hilltop churches is St Lawrence... typical... |
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tempus275
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St Michael vs St Lawrence
replied on: 12/27/2006 6:49:07 PM From The National Gazetteer 1868 "HEANOR, a parish in the hundred of Morleston, county Derby, 7 miles E. of Belper, 9 N.E. of Derby, its post town, 10 N.W. of Nottingham, and 1½ mile from the Langley railway station. The parish is of large extent, including the townships of Codnor, Heanor, Loscoe, and Shipley. It is bounded on the E. by the navigable part of the Erewash river, crossed by Langley bridge on the Derby and Mansfield road. It is rich in mineral produce, and abounds in coal and ironstone. The village, which is very considerable, is situated on rising ground near the Erewash canal, and was formerly a market town. A large portion of the inhabitants are employed in the coal-mines and brickfields, which are very extensive. Framework knitting is carried on to a considerable extent. Heanor is a polling place for the southern division of the county. The living is a vicarage* in the diocese of Lichfield, value £150. The church, dedicated to St. Lawrence, is an ancient structure with a tower containing a clock and five bells. The interior of the church contains several monuments, some of which are to the Mundy family, also one to Samuel Watson, the eminent sculptor. There is also a district church at Codnor, the living of which is a perpetual curacy, value £150. A district has been formed at Cotmanhay, taking in all Shipley and part of Heanor, and a new church built. The parochial charities produce about £20 per annum, with £7 10s., left by the Rev. Francis Gisborne, to be divided annually among the poor in flannel and cloth. The Wesleyans and Baptists have each a chapel, and the Society of Friends a meeting-house. There is a National school, supported by voluntary contributions. Heanor Hall is the principal residence. Charles Ley Hoskins Masters, Esq., is lord of the manor. In the vicinity are ruins of the ancient castle of Codnor, founded by Richard de Grey in the reign of Henry III." Transcribed from http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DBY/Heanor/Gaz1868.html |
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tempus275
Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 1/1/2007 12:48:45 PM by tempus275 |
St Michael vs St Lawrence
replied on: 1/1/2007 12:41:39 PM Just to confuse the issue from "A Topographical Dictionary of England" published in 1848 they think the church is St Mary's - the rest of the information is accurate though. HEANOR (St. Mary), a parish, in the union of Basford, hundred of Morleston and Litchurch, S. division of the county of Derby; containing, with the townships of Codnor-with-Loscoe and Shipley, and with Codnor-Park, extra-parochial, 6282 inhabitants, of whom 3058 are in the town of Heanor, 9 miles (N. E.) from Derby. This parish by measurement comprises 7000 acres, whereof 1500 are in the township of Heanor; it abounds with coal and ironstone, both worked extensively, the collieries alone affording employment to more than 2000 persons. The town is pleasantly situated upon an eminence, on the road from Derby to Mansfield. The principal articles of manufacture are silk and cotton goods, hosiery, and bobbinet lace, providing occupation to about 800 persons. The river Erewash passes along the eastern boundary of the parish: it is crossed by Langley bridge, near which a railway branches off, and extends to the coal-pits north of the town; and about a mile and a half from the town passes the Erewash-Valley railway. The market, on Wednesday, has been discontinued. Charles Lea H. Masters, Esq., is lord of the manor. Heanor Hall is the seat and property of John Ray, Esq. The living is a discharged vicarage, valued in the king's books at £9. 10., and in the patronage of the Crown: the income, previously £111, arising from a glebe of 19 acres, and some land in the parish of Wirksworth allotted in lieu of tithes, was augmented in 1841 with £39 per annum from the fund raised by the suspension of canonries and prebends. The church is a very ancient edifice, with a lofty substantial tower, from which is an extensive view. Codnor and Loscoe, with Codnor-Park, have been formed into a church district. There are places of worship for Baptists, Independents, Wesleyans, and Ranters. £5 per annum were left by Richard Smedley, of Risley, in 1744, for the education of colliers' children; and £7. 10. per annum by the Rev. Francis Gisborne, of Staveley, in 1818, for the benefit of the poor. William Howitt, the poet, was born here in 1792 Extract courtesy of http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=51019 |
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Iceboy53
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St Michael vs St Lawrence
replied on: 1/21/2007 9:10:58 AM tempus...who actually had st lawrence church built and why did they build it where it is today...was the land it is built on always that high up or is the ground man made. |
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tempus275
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St Michael vs St Lawrence
replied on: 1/21/2007 6:59:39 PM Date of and location of origional building is unnknown as it would have been a wooden structure and nothing survives at the current location. Stone church in the village (as was) by the Doomsday book and so presumably at the current location, remains still exist at the church and when the current church was built some of the first stone foundations were exposed. This was demolished and replaced in the 1400's with a new church with a North aisle and Tower. Due to minor subsidence, 400 years of 'make do and mend' attitude towards the buiding, a lot of damp and a prosperious town the medieval church was demolished in 1867-8 and replaced with a new church designed and build by Stevens and Robinson of Derby. This was slightly larger than the previous and nor had a South aisle. It retained the medieval tower as it was in good condition but disposed of the West gallery. Due to a imaginative but sadly grossly unsuitable experiment by Stevens and Robinson with the foundations the South and East side of the church were close to collapse and had to be demolished. The decision was made that as the main foundations could not be totally replaced the new walls were to be more lightweight and flexible. So we now have a medieval tower with partial East and North Wall and modern interior and South side. The ground level would be about where it is now, though the North side has lost a lot of land due to numerious extentions of the road/tramlines. |
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Iceboy53
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St Michael vs St Lawrence
replied on: 1/22/2007 5:47:29 PM very interesting tempus thanks for the reply. |
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Jennypeg
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St Michael vs St Lawrence
replied on: 3/24/2007 10:45:15 AM 1867 The Restoration of Heanor Church St Lawrence The architects were; Messrs Stevens and Robinson of Derby The builders were: Messrs Critchlow and Ward of Uttoxeter, and the clerk of the works Mr. Wm. Miller, of Derby and the foundation stone of the works was laid by J. Ray, Esq., of Heanor –hall, the stone laying was on Sept 3rd 1867, also under the stone a bottle was placed with the names of Mr J. Ray, and the restoration Committee, the patrons of the Church, and also some coins of the realm. Ripley Advertiser 1867 |
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tempus275
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St Michael vs St Lawrence
replied on: 4/1/2007 7:33:07 AM Anyone know anything about a "Chalice" found buried at the church? Found a referance from 1781 (will copy it onto the message board shortly) but have never heard anything of it in the local museums. |
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tempus275
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St Michael vs St Lawrence
replied on: 4/1/2007 3:08:39 PM From Derby Mercury 1781 : "As some workmen were sinking a vault on Wednesday the 15th in the church in Heanor, in this county, for the use of a gentleman's family in that parish, a small white metal cup (with a cover) about 4 inches wide, and 1 1/2 deep, with a stem and foot like a wineglass, was found upon the breast of a corpse: Thro' long continuance in the earth, the nature of the metal could not be precisely determined. As no sort of coin was found in it, it is supposed to have contained a Pardon or Certificate from the Pope, in the times of Superstition, in favor of the deceased, to be delivered to St. Peter at Heanve-Gates; but unfortunately rotted in th Earth, before it could find its was to answer the Purpose intended by it." |
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tempus275
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St Michael vs St Lawrence
replied on: 4/4/2007 3:41:35 PM Well... Done some more research, and may have shot my own theory in the foot... Derby local studies were kind enough to provide me with access to a copy of the Rawling's MSS. about 1820 - it is quite obvious that Cox based an awful lot of his information about Heanor Church from this (however only credits Rawling with referance to a drawing of the church). Rawlin states that the church "is dedicated to St. Michael" I discounted this presuming the same confusion over rough Heanor as with Cox, and presumed this was where Cox got "St Michael" from. Then, finally tracked down the "Pegge" MSS (thanks to the College of arms) that Cox meantions - this makes it clear it is us and not Rough Heanor. "a large village upon a high hill by wch means ye steeple is very conspicuous… the coal is hard and durable" and guess what? "the ch. dedicated to St Michael, and is now a poor Vicarage, in ye gift of ye Crown, of £16 12s clear value". And just to ensure that there is no confusion with Rough Heanor Pegge mentions that the Manor belonged to the "Grey's of Codnor" So 1 : Cox was incorrect about us being under St Mary's in Derby - this WAS Rough Heanor. 2 : Cox was correct about the fact the name change, but not with the date (he says sixteenth century) 3 : Based on Pegge and Rawling we know that it was still St Michael up to at least (roughly) 1820. 4 : We know that the Church was St Lawrence by 1867 as we have architects map of the "present church" just before demolition calling the Church St Lawrence. So, somewhere the between 1820-1867 the name DID change, now all we need is exactly when and why. I'm thinking it was closer to the 1820 end as Claud seems annoyed with it being called St Michael and adament that is had always been St Lawrence, it would not be consistent with the information about his character that he would have done so if he was aware that the name had changed. So the change must have been prior to Frederick arriving (1886) as otherwise Claud would have been aware of it from his parents. |
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tempus275
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St Michael vs St Lawrence
replied on: 8/25/2007 4:47:40 PM More information has come to light.. it's possible that the church may not have been dedicated to either saint. More soon, gonna do some more research before I put the new theory forward |
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