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| RMMee Moderator Quote | Reply | | William ....... Barnes posted on: 11/3/2006 12:23:13 AM Here's a little task for all you genealogical detective experts out there! William Rodway Barnes was the art master at Heanor Secondary (Grammar) School from 1904 to 1950. His children took "Rodway-Barnes" as their surname. He had a daughter, Ethel, born in 1910. William Rodney Barnes was a landscape painter living in Codnor, and who exhibited works between 1885 and 1919, and who was still painting in 1929. Your mission (should you choose to accept it!) is to establish a link between these two persons, based on the scant information you have. Possible options are: - there is no connection. - they were, in fact, the same person. - they were son and father. - some other family connection. |
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suegill
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William ....... Barnes
replied on: 11/3/2006 3:24:44 AM in the 1901 census for Heanor there is a William R Barnes born approx 1872 Portsmouth Hants. He is living on Ray Street single and an Art Master. Sue |
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Jennypeg
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William ....... Barnes
replied on: 11/3/2006 7:04:46 AM 1950 H/O, former Heanor Art Master, death of Mr W. Rodway Barnes 51 Denby Lane Codnor aged 78yrs, 33 years at school. |
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suzard
Researcher Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 11/3/2006 11:57:47 AM by suzard |
William ....... Barnes
replied on: 11/3/2006 10:22:50 AM 1891 census North Wall House St Nicholas Worcester William R Barnes 51(?mark on age)Artist and Landscape Painter Worcester Kidderminster Julia E M wife 45 Pricipal of Grammer School Stafford Bilston Harriet M daughter 23 School Mistress Asst Emily daughter 21 Professor of music Pianoforte ALCM William R son 19 Student Artist and assistant Pupil Teacher Helen daughter 17 Student to School master all children listed as born Portsea Hampshire Looks like they were father and son |
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suzard
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William ....... Barnes
replied on: 11/3/2006 10:40:14 AM and in 1901 Wiliam Snr name is written in full as Rodway-Barnes and the rest of the family are dittoed as same surname North hall House William Rodway-barnes 61 Landscape painting and Artist in Watercolours own account Worcester kiddiminster Julia E M 55 Pricipal Ladies Boarding School at home Staffs Bilston Harriett M 33 Science and Art Mistress at home Worcester malvern Emily R 31 Music Mistress ALCM at home Hants portsea also 2 boarding school pupils were staying with them Looks like his name was Rodway Barnes not Rodney??? |
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suzard
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William ....... Barnes
replied on: 11/3/2006 11:56:49 AM Have noticed landscape paintings for sale on e bay by William Rodney Barnes-have traced Wiliam barnes snr back -almost certainly looks like the person the enquiry is about-but.... William snr is just William on 1851/61/71/81 census, married Julia Elizabeth mary Wyles in 1865 as just William,1891 he is William R and 1901 he is William Rodway barnes William junior-birth reg as William, 1881 William R,1891 William R. William senior (who seems to be William Rodney Barnes)was born abt 1840 Kidderminster Worcester- parents Charles/mary Ann (Charles was a Painter Journeyman in 1851/61) Occupation of William (Rodney?) Barnes- 1851 living Kidderminster age 10 Errand boy, 1861 living kidderminsterage 21 Printer Compositer, 1871 living Portsea Stationery Printer master, 1881 living Aldershot age 41 Traveller in Stationery, 1891 living kidderminster, age 51 Artist and landscape painter, 1901 age 61 Landscape painting and Artist in Water Colours. William jnr uses middle initial R on all census from 1881-1901 |
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RMMee
Moderator Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 11/3/2006 12:59:04 PM by RMMee |
William ....... Barnes
replied on: 11/3/2006 12:54:01 PM So, the son-father relationship is looking pretty sound. The William Rodney version was taken from the same ebay item as you. But I am currently in touch with William Rodway's granddaughter (and, indirectly, daughter, who is now in her 90's!) I wonder when William snr moved to Codnor? |
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suzard
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William ....... Barnes
replied on: 11/3/2006 10:44:32 PM I wonder if William snr did move to Codnor? He was still in Worcester in 1901 and if he was still painting in 1929 would have been age about 90. It is a possibility that both William Rodway Barnes were exhibiting and possibly have been treated as one? Although William senior seemed to "specialize" in landscapes and water colours -there is evidence that William Junior exhibited oils. Ripley and Heanor 19th July 1918 has a report of William Rodway Barnes RDS Artmaster at Heanor Secondary School exhibiting 3 large murals (painted in oil) at the Grafton Galleries London West-paintings numbered 133,134 and 135 entitled "Morning", "Afternoon" and "The Opium Pipe"- much more detail in the actual report. |
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RMMee
Moderator Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 11/5/2006 8:10:18 AM by RMMee |
William ....... Barnes
replied on: 11/3/2006 11:30:13 PM Yes, the thought did cross my mind too - hence the option that the two were the same person (even accepting that the dates were well out). We have very little to go on to even support the assertion that Rodway Barnes (either of them) ever lived in Codnor. Just a reference on an ebay site - but they must have got that information from somewhere. I suppose if we could find the death of Rodway Barnes snr, that would help. Or if we can find a reference to Rodway Barnes jnr being in Codnor. Interesting though, isn't it! I just wanted to tidy the information up a bit before I replied again to his granddaughter, and, thanks to you all, it is a bit clearer, though still with lots of question marks! |
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suzard
Researcher Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 11/7/2006 6:04:45 PM by suzard |
William ....... Barnes
replied on: 11/4/2006 6:28:22 AM Robert, William Rodway Barnes junior lived at Denby lane Crosshill Codnor My PCless friend - remembers visiting him at his home (and seeing his sword collection)-and he has a postcard which was printed from a painting by Rodway junr. For death of William snr it is possible to search the GRO on line -but it would be a lengthy search as all we know is it could be anytime from 1901 and not necessarily in Derbys! |
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suzard
Researcher Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 11/7/2006 4:36:08 PM by suzard |
William ....... Barnes
replied on: 11/4/2006 12:54:23 PM Robert, We have been doing our detective work -and found the following-some from newspapers, some from memory, some from working out dates from census. Rodway senior At some time between 1881-1891 Rodway senior became a full time landscape artist-1891 shows him as an Artist and Landscape painter working on own account-his wife Julia was the Principal of Grammar School -they were living in Worcester. The date of Rodway exhibiting paintings began in 1885-so this was probably the time he became a full time artist.1901 Rodway and wife Juliaare still in Worcester- in the same house as in 1891-Julia was Principal of Ladies Boarding school. Daughters Emily R (single 31 Music Mistress) and daughter Harriett M (single 33 Science and Art Mistress) were living with them. Rodway and Julia had in total 4children- 3 daughters (the youngest daughter was Helen) and 1 son (William Rodway jnr) The youngest daughter was Helen b abt 1874 Portsea Hampshire. There is a marriage report 1st january 1904 of Clarke-Rodway Barnes " The marriage took place on 29th Dec 1903 at St Andrews Church Worcester by Rev T.L. Claughton MA, Canon residuary of Worcester cathedral and rector of St Andrews of William Thomas Clarke BSc London, the Technichal School Heanor Derbys, eldest son of Richard Clarke West brom to Helen (Nellie) youngest daughter of Julia and William Rodway Barnes landscape painter and Grammar School for Girls Worcester." So Rodway senior was still in Worcester in 1903 -and daughter married one of Rodway juniors teaching collegues! There is also a report in R&H 20 Dec 1901 of Heanor Technical School presentation in the Town hall-""Mr Ralph Stoddard presented Miss Barnes (on leaving the school) with a beautiful vase in recognition of her services as Head Mistress." Whether this was one of Rodways family we don't know??) Rodway junior If he had been exhibiting painting in 1885 -he would only have been about 14 years of age. Rodway junior as a young man served as a mounted policeman under Cecil Rhodes in South Africa after studying Art at the Colarossi Acadamie Paris and visiting Art centres in Europe. he returned to the country in 1896 and took up the position of 2nd master Bideford Municipal School of Art and design. In 1898 he joined the staff of Heanor Secondary School. His hobby was collecting swords, claymores, sabres and dirks. In 1938 he joined the Labour party and was Codnors representative on the Divisional Executive Commitee. he was also an ARP in WW2 -my friend remembers him coming to their door in the early hours of one morning wearing his uniform.-he also remembers going to Rodways house and seeing his collection of swors etc which were on display in the front room museum style.This was at 51 Codnor Denby lane. There were 4 schoolteachers living on Denby lane at that time -Mr Savage, Mrs brown, Miss Webb and Mr Rodway Barnes -the 2 latter teaching at Heanor technical School. R& H 22 July 1921 Society of Arts Exhibition Large hall Heanor Technical School 21 July 1921-exhibited a 24ft long mural an imposing work of William Rodway Barnes of Richard 1st and the Crusades...other walls are to be decorated by the same artist. Also Rodway junior must have been an expert with a gun--in 1908 having one of the higher scores at the Heanor Rifle Club. Nov 1906 Rodways teaching salary at heanor Technical School was increased from £115 to £125 R&H 20 Feb 1920 Letter to the editor from William Rodway barnes "Codnor tribute to Men who have fallen " May I call attention to the residents of Codnor of the rare beauty and noble proportion of the Lychgate we propose erecting for the above purpose at Codnor. As one who holds certificates in both Classic and Gothic Architecture and who, as an art student, admired such monuments in many of the most civilised countries of Europe, you will perhaps permit me to state that the proposed gate has my very sincere and whole hearted approval.....after a lifetime devoted to art, my father and grandfather before me , I give it as my considered opinion that the British have as profound a reverence for art as any other people. William Rodway barnes RDS Art master, Gold medalist." It seems likely that it was William Rodway Barnes Snr who was exhibiting from 1885 -as Rodway jun was too young and then out of the country for some while-but they probably both exhibited later. Possibly Rodway snr stayed in Worcester -but daughter Helen came to Heanor and married a collegue of her brothers. Also from the letter to the editor Rodway junior states his father and grandfather "had a lifelong devoted to art" Through the census we have discovered that Rodway juniors Grandfather Charles Barnes -was a painter journeyman-journey man meaning he was qualified enough to teach others. So it seems we have discovered 3 generations of Artists Charles William Rodway snr, William Rodway jnr -the latter we are certain from newspaper reports, census and personal recollections did live in Codnor. Whoever is selling the painting on e bay seems to have misread the signature and not have the history in depth.-in my opinion. William Rodway Barnes jnr died 1950 at Ripley Hospital having been Art master at Heanor Technical School from 1898 to 1931 |
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Jennypeg
Researcher Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 11/4/2006 1:06:55 PM by Jennypeg |
William ....... Barnes
replied on: 11/4/2006 12:57:13 PM "Mr Rodway- Barnes, who was 78, will perhaps best be remembered as art master at Heanor Grammer School from 1898 to 1931. His interest in art, however, was not confined to painting alone, for he possessed an extensive knowledge of wood carving, and one of his favourite hobbies was the collecting of swords, sabres, claymores and dirks. A man of many parts, Mr Rodway-Barnes served as a mounted policeman under Cecil Rhodes, the English statesman, in South Africa, after studying art at the Colarossi Academie, Paris, and visiting art centres in Europe. He led a life of adventure before returning to this country in 1896, when he became second master at Bideford Municipal School of Art and Design, where he remained until he joined the teaching staff at Heanor School. Chief mourners were members of the family" (no names) He died in Ripley Hospital and lived at 51 Denby Lane, Codnor |
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suzard
Researcher Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 11/4/2006 10:19:00 PM by suzard |
William ....... Barnes
replied on: 11/4/2006 1:25:56 PM Helen Barnes (William Rodway's sister)in 1901 was a Boarder with Henry and Amy Fletcher at 126 Ray St Heanor and her occupation was "Schoolmistress" maybe she was the Miss barnes referred to in the presentation report?? Also Directories 1916 William Rodway Barnes ARDS Art Master address Fletcher St heanor 1925 address Codnor Denby Lane |
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suzard
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William ....... Barnes
replied on: 11/5/2006 5:42:04 PM The Society's 1982 book "Around Old Heanor" has a photograph Heanor Technical School 1904 (taken outside the old heanor hall) amongst others are Mr Rodway Barnes, Art teacher) and Mr Clarke, Assistant headmaster. |
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RMMee
Moderator Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 11/7/2006 2:03:54 PM by RMMee |
William ....... Barnes
replied on: 11/7/2006 1:59:03 PM For those who haven't seen the painting we have been discussing, it can be found on this link. I notice that the seller says that the picture is dated 1929. But I have seen a couple of references to 1919 as being the date at which Rodway Barnes senior stopped exhibiting (perhaps the date of his death?) In view of this, and the statement of the painter having a Codnor link, I am wondering more and more whether it may not in fact have been painted by Rodway Barnes jnr. |
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suzard
Researcher Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 11/7/2006 4:20:47 PM by suzard |
William ....... Barnes
replied on: 11/7/2006 4:08:36 PM Robert, Followed the link (above) and that is not the painting I saw- which was a landscape in Woolich-maybe that was Rodway seniors -different style (although I am no expert) Also found a report of an auction 17 Sept 2005 lot 794 was 2 19th century watercolours signed William Rodway barnes-one entitled "Wooded landscape" the other "Castle on headland beside the sea" It seems the exhibitions 1919 may have been Rodway junior too... as..... I think I have found a "possible" Rodway senior's death!!! In our district too!! William Rodway Barnes Death registered Jun qtr 1905 Basford Registration district Age 65 The age fits in with Rodway snrs age on census We know he was in Worcester in 1903 for his daughters wedding -maybe he came to live with her or Rodway jnr in this area-or maybe he died on a visit My friend will scour the R&H to see what can be found-unless Jennie does it first!!!! Just to complicate things further-it seems Rodway snrs wife died in Worcester-after her husband Death Reg Julia Elizabeth M Rodway-Barnes Mar qtr 1909 Age 63 Worcester district |
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