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| RMMee Moderator Quote | Reply | | West - Francis and Thomas posted on: 4/2/2008 8:38:06 AM A query from Australia: "My Family were residents of Heanor from about 1865 to 1915 at least. The predominant surname was WEST. Their occupations were FWK's, seamers, coal miners and furniture dealers, They all lived in Nelson street or close by(1871,81,91 census). Is it possible to see if any society members are researching this name or have an interest in the name. My Great Grandfather, Francis West was born in Ilkeston and served in both the Boer War and WW1 with the RFA if that helps. He was still a resident of Heanor in 1913 before going to France. Can any one tell me if there is any way of tracing where FWK'S worked in the Heanor area (I know they did work from home aswell), or colliers for that point as well! I know my Great Great Grandfather Thomas West, born 1837 in Loughborough was a Master Framework Knitter and moved to Heanor around 1865. I have not been able to trace where he worked or if he was listed in any directories as such or where indeed he died. Would appreciate any assitance or help." |
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suzard
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West - Francis and Thomas
replied on: 4/2/2008 10:30:46 AM I have some very interesting information on (Bombadier) Frank West of heanor -who enlisted in the Royal Field Artillery June 11 1897 and was ordered to South Africa June 3 1899. For a few years prior to enlistment he has been in America where he worked as a confectioner If there is a connection I will post information |
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suzard
Researcher Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 4/2/2008 5:15:29 PM by suzard |
West - Francis and Thomas
replied on: 4/2/2008 2:35:34 PM Am I looking at the wrong family? 1881 Sherwood St Hucknall Notts Thomas West 46 Frame Work Knitter b. Loughborough leics, wife mary 45 b. Loughborough-children Thomas 22 Coal Miner, Sarah 20 seamer hosiery, Jane 18 Seamer (these children b Loughborough, Charles 12, John 6,Frank 4 (these 3 b. Hucknall Notts (also jane Bowman Boarder W 66) 1891 this family are living at nelson St Heanor Thomas West 55 furniture dealer , wife mary 54 (both b Loughborugh) children Charles 21, John 16, Francis 14 ( children all Coal Miners -all b Hucknall Huthwaite Notts)?? |
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RMMee
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West - Francis and Thomas
replied on: 4/2/2008 3:15:58 PM It all looks pretty promising, just the complication over birthplaces, Ilkeston versus Hucknall. I have sent the enquirer the address of this thread, so hopefully they will either register and add some comments, or at least email me. Thanks (as always) for your work on this already! |
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suzard
Researcher Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 4/3/2008 12:04:50 AM by suzard |
West - Francis and Thomas
replied on: 4/2/2008 11:57:15 PM Theres a lot of things which don't tie up with the enquirer's information 1891 i found the west family livng on nelson St, but couldn't find any other wests on nelson St The family I found in 1871 are living in swanwick Derbys Thomas 33 CottonStocking maker , Mary 32 seamer of hose with children :Thomas 12,Sarah 10, James 7 (allb Loughborough and Charles Hy 10mths b Sutton in Ashfield Notts) in 1861 they are living in loughborough and Thomas is a Framework Knitter Thoas'father was Charles and he too was a frame work knitter 1901 son Chas Hy was 30 unmarried Coal Miner and living (boarding) in Doncaster Yorks The only Francis (or Frank) West I can find b. Ilkeston is age 1 in 1891 and is the son of Alfred West (coal Miner) there is a Francis West age 30 b Heanor , living marlpool father John West (widower) in 1891 Something is not quite right ????? |
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brownwest
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West - Francis and Thomas
replied on: 4/3/2008 11:55:14 AM This sounds extremely promising and accurate my father had told me about a long time rumour that a couple of wests were in America for a time...I 'm a ancestry member but did not have access to immigration records so could start to get serious about trying to search this stuff... I was told that it was Thomas who was in America!!!He is my Great Great Grandfather...are yuo related, how did you come about this information? |
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brownwest
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West - Francis and Thomas
replied on: 4/3/2008 12:04:31 PM Yes, me again, your definetly looking at my family..Thomas West and Mary West (nee bailey) I have this data in my tree... Just can't find Thomas in the 1851 census...or the 1871 census...if this is the same person who has info on an american link can you let me know??? |
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brownwest
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West - Francis and Thomas
replied on: 4/3/2008 12:08:21 PM Hi this is the inquirer...things are a little blurred becuase a number of my original brith certificates or corresponding data from previous research done by my fahter have left un sure whether Francis my Great Grandad was born in Ilkeston or Hucknall? Is Hucknall actually Hucknall Huthwaite? Is Hucknall close to Heanor? |
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brownwest
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West - Francis and Thomas
replied on: 4/3/2008 12:21:07 PM Sorry, the other West's in Nelson Street in the 1891 census are Thomas West "JNR" (the eldest son of thomas) born 1859 and married to Elizabeth ......AND the other West is Sarah, in the 1891 census she is actually shown as Brough, as she was well and truely married with kids by this stage, here husband was Thomas Brough..they had three children by then Saraah Jane, Thomas and George Brough...my fault gave you a bad steer there...I 'm still pretty new at this...I have some Data on Thomas West Snr parents Charles and Phoebe but I had previously relied on IGI data from Family search which pushed me to beleive that I culd trace the family tree back another 3 generations to a small village near Loughbrorugh called Shepshed, but when I had a local historian try and verify this data he said he could find no record of charles or his ancestors in Loughborough...that's why I ahve left it alone for a while and really tried to focus on finding out exactly where Thomas West ans his children were during 19th century!!! |
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suzard
Researcher Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 4/3/2008 6:10:06 PM by suzard |
West - Francis and Thomas
replied on: 4/3/2008 4:40:30 PM hello brownwest and welcome to the site Hucknall is about 6 miles away from Heanor -but Hucknall is in Nottinghamshire - and Heanor is in our beloved derbyshire. Huthwaite is further away from Heanor -but at the time of the census there was Hucknall Torkard and Hucknall Huthwaite. I am not related (as far as I know) to your family - although my family did have an "incident" with Thomas henry brough from heanor -see Brough topic Now you have verified I have the correct family i will post my findings. I cannot post full census details (copyright) - but if you are a member of Ancestry I can post details of census ref erences for you to look up. it seems your family originated from Loughborough and then moved around quite a lot before coming to Heanor. First I will post the information I have on Frank (Francis?) West- unfortunately you will have to wait until next week for half of the information -as I only have the top half of the newspaper page -but can get the bottom half next week. |
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suzard
Researcher Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 4/3/2008 6:03:02 PM by suzard |
West - Francis and Thomas
replied on: 4/3/2008 5:55:07 PM Ripley and Heanor News 22 Dec 1911 (accompanied by photograph -my photocopy too dark to post) -if you requre a copy of this I am willing to post a copy to you - if you care to PM me your address - or send it to robert mee and he will pass it on - please don't post addresses personal details on site)) article is over 2 columns -of which at the moment I have the top half of both columns! WAR STORIES - Thrilling experiences of local Soldiers and Sailors Bombadier Frank West (of Heanor -late Royal Field Artillery) It would be readily conceded by all arms that no corps had a more strenuous time in the South African Campaign than the royal Field Artillery, the very nature of the country itself forming a formidable barrier to quick progress. The story of Frank West therefore makes interesting reading. BOMBADIER FRANK WEST before his enlistment on June 11th, 1897, Mr West had resided for some years in America, and whist working as a confectioner there received his first "baptism of fire". This was an accidental affair, and ocurred whilst he and his employer were practising with a rifle. Owing to a misunderstanding Mr West received a gunshot wound in his chest, but has suffered no serious after effects. ORDERED TO SOUTH AFRICA On June 3rd 1899, orders were received for the 75th Battery to be made up to South African Establishment. This was, of course, before the outbreak of hostilities with the Boers. The left half battery embarked at Birkenhead on the Zayathla and the right half on board the Zibengla., and were under orders to proceed to Ladysmith to releive the battery stationed in that town. War had broken out by the time Las Palmas was reached, and the natives prophesied the Boers would beat the English. The men of the battery rejoined , "Yes, in the same way as the Spanish whacked the Americans". This caused angry looks from the spaniards. On November 8th the left half battery proceeded on reconnaissence from Orange River, under captain H.J.W. Farrell, along with two squadrons 9th lancers, two companies mounted infantry, and a detachment of the R.M.A.C. with two ambulances, the composite party being commanded by Col. the Hon. G.H.Gough. Arrived at Orange River Bridge the battery bivouacked under protection of a piquet furnished by the Loyal N. Lancs. On Nov 9th, reveille sounded at 3-30 a.m. and the battery proceeded as far as Belmont station, but did not encounter the enemy, and so returned and encamped for the night at Fincham's Farm. FIRST ENGAGEMENT-KAFFIR KOP By five o' clock next morning camp was astir and a move made towards Belmont, where the enemy were encountered. The Boers opened fire on the cavalry with a large gun, but after a couple of rounds from the half battery there was no further response. Ten rounds sufficed to clear the Boers from their position on the .... SORRY HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL NEXT WEEK!!!!! TOP OF SECOND COLUMN ".... visit of inspection he paid to the river banks where Cronje and his men entrenched themselves. West said, " Each man had his hole dug out under the bank, with legs of dead cows partly eaten, and the stench was unbearable, no wonder they surrendered". ENGLISHMAN HIDES FOR A WEEK IN GOLD MINE At Johannesburg the British Troops received a hearty welcome from several Englishmen who had been in hiding. One of these informed west that he had been secreted in a gold mine for fear the Boers would have held him prisoner. POPULAR GROVE. Along with the 18th and the 75th came into touch with the retreating Boers three miles south of Poplar grove, and after a two hours action the Boers again did the disappearing business. At Karru Siding and Zurfontein were fights lasting two or three hours, and some heavy marching followed. Three casualties of a peculiar nature ocurred between Zurfontein and Zand River. Two gunners were run over by waggons, whilst Driver Steele was killed through his horse going down and the remainder of the team going over him. KRUGERS NARROW ESCAPE At the bombardment of pretoria the battery plumped a number of shells over the kopje right onto the station platform. The Boers had no idea the Britishers were close at hand, having been cajoled by their leaders into the belief that the English were being driven back into Cape Colony. The battery galloped round by the railway station to prevent Kruger's escape, but had the mortification of arriving just in time to see the rear end of the train in the distance. AFTER DE WET. COLDMARCH 6,400 FEET ABOVE SEA LEVEL After Pretoria came a long chase all over the country, and in six weeks, the battery covered over 800 miles over heavy sandy roads. From Wonderfontein to Belfast the march was the coldest experienced, the heght of the plateau being 6,400 feet above sea level, and the highest altitude in the Transvaal. A TIGHT CORNER. GUNWHEELS RIDDLED BY BULLETS. EXPLOSIVE BULLET KILLS TWO MEN AND WOUNDS BOMBADIER WEST.." SORRY THAT'S IT UNTIL NEXT WEEK!!! Thought I would post what I had - as I work on the assumption "reading about things that happened over 100 years ago take on more of an urgency than todays newspaper! Will be back later tonight with family history I have Sue |
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brownwest
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West - Francis and Thomas
replied on: 4/3/2008 10:42:11 PM Dear Sue, I can explain how exciting this is for me, It like having my very own episode of 'who do you think you are' I'm an ex servicemen myself, so any tit bits I find on my family mil history is real gold!!! I'll talk to yuo again tonight. Thank you so much |
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suzard
Researcher Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 4/4/2008 12:01:53 AM by suzard |
West - Francis and Thomas
replied on: 4/3/2008 11:41:48 PM This is a series of very good articles giving an insight into the Boer war no history book will give. 3 of my great uncles (brothers) were interviewed separately for this series -all were in the boer War - the youngest survived the fighting only to be struck by lightning at the barracks (in England) -he was hospitalised for 2 years -suffering burns and paralysis down one side -he survived and struck the first coal at a local colliery - some of the family are more proud of that than his service history) I assume you have Thomas parents in the census until 1891 - they lived to a good age -Charles to age 84 and phoebe to 72. On all census Charles gives his p.o.b as Loughborough On IGI there is a baptism -but it is member submitted so treat with caution Charles West christened 23 jan 1809 loughborough leicestershire parents gabriel West/mary there is also a marriage - again member submitted marriage 15 Sept 1805 Loughborough Gabriel West mary Keighley Loughborough leicestershire. Charles is referred to as a Angola s FWK (master) employing 2 men and 6 women in 1861 while his wife worked as a winder of cotton yarn I would think he was part of the cottage industry -not a factory owner occasionally you come across apprentices names -but it is very difficult to find exact places of work -most worked at home In 1844 there were 48,482 stocking frames in the british isles and all but 108 of them were operated by hand. 90% of the frames were situated in East Midlands Counties : leicestershire, Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire Lots of history is available on line re FWK You said you couldn't find them in 1851 Thomas'sister Selina -age 11 in 1851- was living at Church gate Loughborough and working as a house servant for Charlotte A Price ( 61 yr old widow - proprietor of houses) -there was a lodger -Joseph Giles age 38 occ Solicitor b. Shepshed leicester and Thomas is living with his parents and siblings in Loughborough at Barrow St- Charles (42 FWK)and Phoebe 35 with children Thomas 13, Ann 8, Henry 6, mary 4 -all b Loughborough HO107 Piece 2085 Folio 127 pages 6 & 7 (they are mistranscribed on ancestry )as "Wish" -must admit the writing on image is quite bad. it seems (to me) that the later children of Thomas would probably have been b. hucknall -as their births were registered in mansfield district -which would cover the area. By the way - I am not related - or the person who has this history on an American link - I only looked this up when Robert posted your enquiry - i just have this pandoras box with all kinds of information which may come in useful one day - I couldn't find your family being b Ilkeston -that's one of the reasons I had to "check it out" -Heanor History and family history is my passion! Noticed you don't have Thomas in 1871 -will check that out now Sue |
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suzard
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West - Francis and Thomas
replied on: 4/4/2008 12:05:31 AM Here he is in 1871 at 30 the Green Swanwick Derbys Thomas 33 Cotton Stocking maker , mary 32 Sewing Hose, children Thomas 12, Sarah 10, jane 7, Chas Hy 10mths -all b loughborough ecept Chas Hy who was b Sutton in Ashield Notts (not far from hucknall ref RG10 piece 3593 Folio 63 page 22 |
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brownwest
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West - Francis and Thomas
replied on: 4/4/2008 12:11:03 AM Sue, I just can't believe I didn't find this site and your wealth of knowledge much earlier..I've been doing this now for about two years...I love it...I have no family in Australia at all...I was born in England, but my Mum and Dad soon moved to Australia...My Dad lives back in London now, so I'm sure he'll make a trip up to Derbyshire to get a copy of the relevant documents...unless of course we can exchange emails securely (and home addresses) I'm grateful for the stuff on Thomas and Charles aswell, as I previously mentioned I had been quite sucessfull in linking the west's back to Loughborough and Shepshed, my previous research found that The names Gabriel West was used by the family another 3 geenrations, The oldest Gabriel West I found was born in CHARLEY, a few miles from Shepshed in 1722, but it was all IGI member posted stuff...and I made contact with a local researcher who said he had no marriage for Charles West and Phoebe Hull in Loughborough ....I'm not very good at searching the older records and marriages... As for the separation of brith places for Thomas and Mary children, your right, I think the first three children were born in Basford, and the next three including my Great Grandfather Frank were born in Heanor. I haven't got access to it right now, so location of basford maybe wrong. will talk tonight |
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brownwest
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West - Francis and Thomas
replied on: 4/4/2008 12:22:22 AM Hucknall, not Heanor, they lived in Heanor...sorry for the confusion, its hards to recall who was bron where off the top of my head, particularly when yuo have only ever passed through these towns, I have no real understanding of the local geography, I drove through Heanor, smalley, kirk hallam, bunkers hill and Mapperley in Feb last year, but I was on my way from Cumbria back to London, so I was short on time...and didn't really look closely at any of them. |
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