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Author	Message / Information
Iceboy53 This message was updated on 1/22/2007 5:44:26 PM by Iceboy53	Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves? replied on: 1/22/2007 5:39:46 PM post deleted..sorry...when i did the post i can't back to the threads again and it's posting me twice.
Iceboy53	Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves? replied on: 1/22/2007 5:39:07 PM yes your right i should have done my homework and look at the start of the threads in the future...
RMMee Moderator	Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves? replied on: 1/21/2007 11:30:04 PM Ice Yes, that's undoubtedly connected - see the earlier discussions in this thread when the farm is mentioned a couple of times.
Iceboy53	Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves? replied on: 1/21/2007 12:55:38 PM looking at this old thread and comparing it with the old maps...i noticed there is an "algrave hall farm in shipley near where the garden centre is now...is there some sort of link here or am on the wrong path.
bennerley	Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves? replied on: 12/6/2006 12:05:02 PM There are about 7 recently modern meanings of Greave - including Scottish tax collectors, whale fat, gravel, brushwood and thicket, mine/pit and shin armour. Lower leg or shin armour - greaves - is from Old French greve. Since Allgrave was opencast for coal recently and The History of Mining mentions mine soughs plus the fact that mining for minerals and coal, in this area dates back to Saxon times I feel the old farm is named, as on Burdett's map, for the Old Mines. Oldgreave, Ouldgreave, Oldgroaves etc derive originally from the Old Saxon graefa (modern computers do not have the appropriate letters!) OS graefa = grove & greave = mine, pit. A parallel with what is now Allgrave/Owlgreave etc., is Youlgreave = old greave =old mine or mines (The Alport, Youlgreave area was a major lead mining region). Near Sheldon is Fieldgrove mine also known as Field Groove,Field Rake. In Derbyshire from at least the 13th century miners were known as groovers and mines as grooves. In the Mendips the same terms applied but in Swaledale there is a slight difference in that gruve = a lead mine & a gruver was a lead miner. In Northumberland a grove was a mine and a grove-hole was a footrill/drift/adit. So you have the Old Saxon root and then the immigration of German miners, invited for example by Elizabeth I, who brought with them German terms derived from Old Teutonic grad (the d should have the slashed line through it -computer limitations again!) =mine,pit From this comes: Old High German gruoba Old Middle German gruobe Modern German grube = mine,pit Hope this helps - by the way philfred can you imagine crawling across 23s face in leg armour? Since I had to do it twice without kneepads leg armour would have been welcome. bennerley.
philfred	Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves? replied on: 12/2/2006 2:00:08 PM Just to add to the confusion two more meanings, greave a scottish term for farm manager and derived from the saxon, an officer responsible for collecting the lord's taxes. I would assume lord to mean lord of the manor since it is spelt with a lower case l. I thought that it would be worth putting these two meanings on the thread. Both could fit in with farming very well. regard Phil
philfred	Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves? replied on: 10/22/2006 2:18:42 PM Yet again, this is what I found in A General Dictionary of Provincialisms by William Holloway, published 1839. quote GROOVE, s [Gruben, Teut. to delve] A mine or shaft. Derby. York.unquote Could there be a Newgroove nearby ? regards Phil
philfred	Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves? replied on: 10/16/2006 9:14:10 PM Hello Bennerley, I got myself in a right state trying to fathom out the german connection. I pumped in coalpit into a translation page and out came Kohlengrube. It then became clear, I would imagine the Old German form of grube and the local dialect mangling it to form greave. Or was the roof of the mine supported by something resembling greaves ( shin armour) or was it so low you had to wear them as protection(knee pads). I started off many moons ago at Moorgreen Training Centre finishing my mining career at Ollerton Collliery. regards Phil
philfred	Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves? replied on: 10/16/2006 7:12:25 PM From Sanderson's 1835 map the spelling agrees with previous posting. It is spelt as one word "Oldgreave". The area was out-cropped (opencast in new speak but still makes a mess) by Taylor Woodrow in the mid 50s. regards Phil
RMMee Moderator	Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves? replied on: 10/13/2006 11:49:23 PM Welcome to the site Bennerley. And many thanks indeed for the explanation of the name - that is certainly a new one on me, but it totally fits the history of the area. I look forward to many more contributions in the future.
bennerley This message was updated on 10/13/2006 6:22:11 PM by bennerley	Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves? replied on: 10/13/2006 6:21:20 PM Old Greave is from Old German meaning Old Mine. Coal is very near the surface here and was opencast mined on a small scale a few years ago. The present house exterior is over an existing brick building. It would be interesting to learn if anything of the 18th century sough is still in evidence.
suzard Researcher This message was updated on 9/30/2005 5:34:16 AM by RMMee	Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves? replied on: 9/29/2005 11:32:42 PM I have info on the Hunts and a servant on the farm(my grandfather!) I'll go to fam history section and post more there. By the way you state SMUEL FOX HUNT was the youngest-he wasn't-NATHANIEL was younger than Samuel-in 1881 NATHANIEL was a boarder at a private schoo; in Nottingham
RMMee Moderator	Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves? replied on: 9/29/2005 8:34:34 PM Welcome Jacqui! It might be worth posting on the Family History thread as well - someone just looking for the family name may not think to look under Shipley. I wish you luck in your search.
houseworkfairy This message was updated on 9/29/2005 5:24:40 PM by houseworkfairy	Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves? replied on: 9/29/2005 5:17:55 PM Am also interested to hear of the servant's descendant and any information there.
houseworkfairy	Ouldgeave, Oldgrave, Oldgroaves? replied on: 9/29/2005 5:17:06 PM Thank you everyone for the information. Nathaniel Hunt the owner in 1881 was my maternal great great great grandfather. I'm having trouble tracing the family after 1891-1901. My great grandmother Lilian was his grandaughter and I don't know if Owlgreave or Oldgrave Farm continued in the family's possession. Her father's farm on Breach Road seems to have been sold after his death possibly for housing but if Algrave Hall Farm is still there I would like to find out more about it. Nathaniel had quite a few sons by the way who seem to all have been a;ready in possession of farms eg some at Chaddesden some at Marlpool/Langley which is why Samuel Fox Hunt the youngest took over Owlgreave I assume. He seems to have died off by 1901 along with his brother Thomas Dunn Hunt.

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