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| fratka Moderator/Phreak  Quote | Reply | | Okay, thats it! posted on: 1/25/2006 8:18:28 AM Using magical or religious artifacts, scriptures, or spells for defense and banishing does not work anywhere but in your head and produces fear in your clients. You may believe it works with all the passion of your being and delude yourself into thinking your client is in a better place than they were before, but they are not. If you start spreading salt everywhere and repeating some line, all you will have is dead grass and wasted breath. These entities are not part of some hierarchical structure where they have to obey some other being just because they tell them too or invoke/evoke some archaic god-force. Like me or you it would take physical force to remove us from a location if we did not want to leave. Having these personal beliefs are fine, more power to you. But when you perpetuate these beliefs to your clients, who are usually ignorant to the details of a haunting you perform a discredit to them and the paranormal community. As a matter of fact (because I’ve seen it happen) you may put them in a bad position. If they continue to use these “tools” you supplied them with, at some point they are going to piss the entity off. Then who will be left to deal with the “problem”, your terrified and exhausted former client that’s who. I write this because recently I acquired a client who had this happen to them and this is not the first. When I met with them it broke my heart to see the terrified expression on their face. The sheer hopeless feelings they expressed to me about not being able to protect their children from this unseen force (by the way they were not in any danger). The confirmed entity that was in their house turned out to be harmless and the client was given real tools to help them cope; knowledge! I taught them what this was, showed them what it looked like and let them hear it’s voice. That was 2 weeks ago and the family now emails me several times a week to tell me what funny thing the ghost is doing now. Their mood is lighter; they laugh about it and thank me for being honest with them about their new friend. |
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Millifan
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Okay, thats it!
replied on: 1/26/2006 2:37:43 AM I think you refer to my posting and who is to suggest that salt is not a tool, the wording is just not to your liking. Salt was and is a valueable commodity and was used for many centuries within Europe as payment for services, it is as old as the earth itself. By all means cut this down once you have tried it for yourself. It is not scientific and is probably one of the only things I use which is not so. I do not suggest this for clients but for the ghost hunter to use thierselves. If you are not refering to my posting, then, don't look at my posting on salt as you won't like it 
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metallica666
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Okay, thats it!
replied on: 1/26/2006 8:42:32 PM Well, I do not wish to cause strife with the mods, I will say however, that everybody is entitled to their own opinion, if salting works for them, or they think it does, why not, it might work in some cases, sweet grass made my case worse, look, I'm not trying to be an asshole here but we should all respect eachothers opinions  .
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fratka
Moderator/Phreak Quote | Reply | |
Okay, thats it!
replied on: 1/27/2006 2:51:28 AM It has nothing to do with opinions. Millifan, this post was not specifically pointed in your direction for there are many posts where similar techniques are cited. I have no problem with personal beliefs (I do not share those beliefs as you might imagine) I am sick and tired of people calling themselves investigators and researchers (implies you are an observer only) and then pulling these metaphysical techniques out of their bags and telling their clients it will be okay, the spirit is gone. Incidentally, I am aware of the history of salt! If you would like to prove your technique then present evidence that the location was really haunted, apply your technique and then present evidence that the place is clear of the haunting. It doesn't sound hard, it's sounds impossible doesn't it? We all know that activity doesn't take place everytime you are on location and it may be part of a pattern where activity is heavy for a couple weeks and then dies off for several weeks. There are too many variables as to why that entity may not show itself i.e. transient spirit, visiting relative, or any combination of a hundred scenarios. Like I said, I have no problem with your personal beliefs and I won't try to change your beliefs (that's impossible in itself). I have no problem with opinions either, just don't call yourself an investigator and go into a clients house (representing the paranormal community) wave your hand, project energy, burn incense, open and close a circle and say its all better now. |
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Millifan
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Okay, thats it!
replied on: 1/27/2006 8:09:30 AM I am not a ghost hunter, I am a researcher not just of the paranormal and within my research I do not just cover the logical argument, to do so would negate the possibilites of many of the subjects which surround the paranormal. I in no way say for your clients to be dazzled and left agog with this ritual, but for the Ghost HUnter thierselves to use it for thierself, to aid them and also to stop a spirit from entering thier home or HQ wherever that maybe. Sometimes accepting is more advancing than pure logic alone. Everything has it's place and everyone has thier own opinion. I accept your views on this subject area, but fail to understand why this wants to make you rant, but hey we're all different, if we all worked the same, we would be called ants. |
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fratka
Moderator/Phreak Quote | Reply | |
Okay, thats it!
replied on: 1/27/2006 9:32:58 AM In both of my posts I refer to interaction with the client only and mention nothing concerning your personal protection. For personal protection, do whatever you think will help you out. That is your business! I am ranting about the case after case I go on and have to "clean-up" where other so called investigators have given a false sense of security to the client. Then the client has that security crushed when activity returns 10 fold. I am not referring to your or anyone elses methods of personal protection. To me there are no other avenues to research these anomalies. Through scientific theory is where I focus my eyes and cameras because that is the only place the "world" will accept what we have to present. They will not accept a metaphysical, occult, philosophical or religious explanation of these anomalies as truth because, as you said everyone is different. Being that everyone is different, everyone has a different take on reality. |
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shaybeck
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Okay, thats it!
replied on: 1/30/2006 6:51:56 AM After reading this I will have to side with Frank....He wasn't trying to bash anyone's beliefs he is just fed up with investigators telling the clients that these methods will work..... Speaking from personal experience.... I was told to do the same thing and with no results... I got really upset when the methods didn't work..... I can understand where your coming from Frank and sympathize..... Also wanted to say that it did more damage than good in my case when they told me to use certain methods and then when all was said and done it didn't work..... He's also right when he said that you don't always get a reaction when investigating... It's not like you go to a location and call forth a ghost everytime.... Let's be logical they are a mystery to all of us and that's why we are trying to figure them out... it's going to take a lot of trial and error before we can totally understand why things occur the way they do.... In a nutshell Frank I agree with you.... |
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brgallag
Moderator Quote | Reply | |
Okay, thats it!
replied on: 1/30/2006 6:49:02 PM hmmm, i dont have any reason to think they would work either but ive seen such an exorcism have an effect though very very limited. And indeed the presence was very very tame. Could it be the force of the personality of whoever does it can have an effect in itself? |
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shaybeck
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Okay, thats it!
replied on: 1/31/2006 2:53:40 AM That's a good question brgallag..... |
parlance
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Okay, thats it!
replied on: 2/28/2006 12:07:32 PM I think the main problem with using "magical" techniques is that a lot of times people don't know how to use them properly. If you consult with someone who grew up in a culture that developed the methods they are using, then the results will be a lot different. You have to know how to close all the "doorways". There was a haunting at a college in Billings, Montana. Students in one particular dormitory were always reporting sightings of a dead female student's ghost. Rumor had it she commited suicide in the dorm. One night a friend of mine was having a sleepover of some guests, so he and his roommate had camped on the floor, giving the guests their beds. While they were laying there talking, he watched as the ribbons that tied his sword (he was of Scots ancestry and did the sword dance with this item) to the light fixture overhead began to dance. Then, when they gave a sudden jerk, he pushed his roommate out of the way and rolled away himself as the sword fell between them. After that episode my friend disappeared for a few days and then kicked his roommate out for three days while he performed an exorcism. He never gave any details about what this entailed. When the term ended and they moved out, the roommate found pieces of grey flint all over the room. From what I understand, this is used for attracting ghosts. So in essence, he trapped the ghost for the purpose of exorcising it. After the exorcism nobody reported any more sightings of the dead girl. May she rest in peace. |
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shaybeck
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Okay, thats it!
replied on: 3/8/2006 8:12:09 AM Can anybody tell me for sure if an exorcism has ever worked???? I've never heard of one working... I came from a supersticious (sp) family and salt I can tell you does not work......period just makes a mess...unless someone can prove to me otherwise I'm sticking to my guns and that's it!!!! Oh by the way it's been tried and it doesn't work in my case......nope |
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gothy
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Okay, thats it!
replied on: 3/11/2006 3:54:23 AM I just wanted to say that the point of salt that seems to go missing in many ghost forums is...Its a tool. Nothing more. Its a means to focus ones own energies. Getting out a box of salt and simply spreading it around doorways and windows is just a mess. But, using salt as a visible means of boundries does help the person attempting to clear out disturbances. Salt is of the earth, and it has the same energies as the earth. Sage is condsidered a cleansing herb, if one beleives that all natural things have a Magikal property. When I read some of these ghost advice things I shake my head. BURN SAGE! SPREAD SALT! These things only help to visualise, and focus ones own personal energies. It may be only in that persons head, but whatever helps. I personally dont beleive in evil per say, I think people are a hell of a lot scarier than any ghost, or entity. If these things worked on their own, as many of these psuedo "ghost hunters" claim, I would be the first to develop "Dr Gothys GHOST BE GONE!" in three delicious flavours. Salt'n'vinegar, Savory stuffed chicken, and Paprika. In the end, if someone chooses to use these as a tool, I totally support that. But just advising someone to spread salt, and to burn stuff without any of the preparation and focus is meaningless drivel. |
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