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| LiveWire Quote | Reply | | heyhey TimMyth posted on: 5/23/2003 6:17:10 PM hi it's z-e-r-o from dominion forum. this site isnt too bad just a little trickey to sign up ;0 yes i was looking at both charts from your site. the one chart where i was suposed to plug in a race and such.. i couldnt ever find a way to plug in the race! and the other chart was just a bit too much for me. basically what im wondering tho is are masonries really that much better for so many races than other buildings? i know those builds didnt hit max effeciency tho so meh ;/ lemme know im tryin to learn! playing icekin next round so we can use them as examples :] |
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Tim_Myth
*Moderator* Quote | Reply | |
heyhey TimMyth
replied on: 5/28/2003 12:52:24 PM I think I know which two charts you are talking about, and they are much too confusing. That's something I'm working on as I have the time, but I have so little time.  The Efficiency calculator doesn't ask for a race, but you do have to enter Acres, DPA, OPA, SPA, WPA, and your build strat. The farms will be automatically calculated so I wouldn't recommend changing that, but the rest can be changed as you see fit so long as it all adds up to 100% in the end.In most cases, yes: masonries are better than most other building for most races. |
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LiveWire
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heyhey TimMyth
replied on: 5/28/2003 4:41:03 PM ok hmm.. target employment= justover 100%? and i should only build enough barracks to house my troops unless dwarf, gob or kob right? also, whats the general DPA per week i need. how to harness dwarf/lycan/gob fast growth and OOP attacks without sacrificing defense weeks later. im unclear on these topics. |
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Tim_Myth
*Moderator* Quote | Reply | |
heyhey TimMyth
replied on: 5/29/2003 2:43:54 PM When you get land in, each acre houses 5 people (10 for some races) and employs none. Buildings under construction house 15 peasansts and employ none. What you ideally want to do is have a high enough employment that those people are earning you money. If you had 100% employment on 1000 acres with 15 employed peasants per acre, you'd have 15000 employed peasants and 15000 jobs. If you take 50 acres, you get 250 more peasants who are unemployed. As you build those 50 acres, you'd have 750 (500 more) peasants laying around freeloading. If you ran an employment of 104% instead, you would have 15600 jobs, and 600 of those 750 peasants would be making you about 1800-2000 extra plat per hour (with mods). If you're attacking very frequently, you may want to go a little higher. If you're hitting once every 3 days, you may want to go a little lower. It's kind of a JIT (Just In Time) Inventory System. As for building barracks, if your pop bonus is over 33.3333% don't build barracks. Barracks house 40 trained and training troops. They are not affected by pop mods at all. They will always hold only 40 troops. Houses hold 30 troops, but are affected by pop mods. If you have a 33.3333% pop bonus, your house holds 40 people. So, if you were an Icekin with a 33.3333% pop bonus, it wouldn't matter if you built your bonus acres into homes or barracks. Forcasting DPA is a tough cookie.  A *very* general rule of thumb is 20DPA by the end of week 1, 30 by the end of week 2, and then about 1-1.5 extra DPA per day after that until the end of the round. Your best bet is to find someone bigger than you with a huge amount of networth and spy on them. Make sure you have more defense than they have offense. An exception to this is if you know a majority of the people bigger than you have less defense than you. Defense isn't always about being the toughest to break, its about not being the easiest target. 
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J-Roc[LoC]
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heyhey TimMyth
replied on: 5/29/2003 5:25:45 PM you and a friend are being chased by a lion in the jungle... you dont hafta outrun the lion, you just gotta trip your friend |
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Regis
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heyhey TimMyth
replied on: 5/29/2003 6:52:06 PM Only in Dominion chances are the guy you are running with isn't your friend and the lion is the guy with the top OP. |
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LiveWire
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heyhey TimMyth
replied on: 5/29/2003 7:09:01 PM ok a couple last questions.. for now ive done this math two times and im wondering what im leaving out. a. @1750 acres @42000 plat/hour @dwarfs @20% per building smithys: reduce warrior cost to 874 plat per. total warriors per hour using only smithys= 48.05 alchs: provide an exta 15400 plat(with midas only). total warriors per hour using only alchs= 49.9 b. @1500 @50000 plat/hour @icekin @20% per building smithys: reduce ice elemental cost to 684 plat per. total ice elems per hour using only smithys= 73.09 alchs: provide an extra 13800 plat(with midas and racial bonus only). total ice elems per hour using only alchs= 70.9 just for clarification i just used random figures for acerage and plat per hour. what i thought i was finding was that alchs are better than smithys always. what i think im actually finding is alchs are better then smithys only with a high draft rate? help here pls. also, can you show so math about masonries being more useful than alch/smithy? or is that a situational thing as well. if so when are masonries better than alchs or smithies. |
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Regis
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heyhey TimMyth
replied on: 5/29/2003 7:53:57 PM That's very interesting. I have some ideas as to why this might happen. First is the plat bonus makes Alchemies better for Icekin. Second, that Alchemies are more efficient at higher land totals. The results ran counter to what I would assume happens (That smithies are better for the race with the more expensive units) Lets do some more calculations on this. I'll start with Lycanthrope. Lets set a standard of 100 of each building at 100% employment to start with. Plat w/ 100 Alchemies = 10810 Each Werewolf is 800 plat so 13.512 Werewolves with Alchemies per hour Plat w/ 100 Smithies = 6210 Each Werewolf is now 480 plat so 12.9375 As I expected, the 15% plat bonus pushed the results in favor of the Alchemies just as it did for Icekin. The larger your raw income the greater the actual boost the platinum bonus gives, and the smithies bonus stays static wether you are 1000 acres with a 40k income or 3000 acres with a 120k income. Which is why Smithies should be dropped somewhere around 1500 acres, especially if you are exploring. -Regis |
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Tim_Myth
*Moderator* Quote | Reply | This message was updated on 5/30/2003 4:55:18 PM by Tim_Myth |
heyhey TimMyth
replied on: 5/30/2003 11:52:50 AM (Edited for brevity. This was a long post!) I'm not quite understanding your initial parameters. I'll try to duplicate your results though. Assumptions: Icekin Build with 20% Smithies Barracks:34.83% Farms:5.96% Smithies:20% Ore Mines:27.21% Lumberyards:4% Towers:6% Dock:2% Results Military:13930 Peasants:10754 Total Pop:24684 Draft Rate:56% Employment:121.21% Income:34843 Icekin Build with 20% Alchemies Barracks:34.83% Farms:5.96% Alchemies:20% Ore Mines:27.21% Lumberyards:4% Towers:6% Dock:2% Results Military:13930 Peasants:10754 Total Pop:24684 Draft Rate:56% Employment:121.21% Income:44443 Icekin Build with 20% Masonries Barracks:33.98% Farms:5.62% Masonries:20% Ore Mines:28.4% Lumberyards:4% Towers:6% Dock:2% Results Military:13591 Peasants:11488 Total Pop:25079 Draft Rate:54% Employment:114.94% Income:38152 In this case alchemies have a slight edge over smithies. If we increase the DPA and OPA to 60 and 45 respectively, the draft rates go to 71%, 71%, and 69%. This makes the incomes go to 26455, 36055, and 29348. This means alchemies have an even greater advantage. Now we'll look at Lycanthropes under the similar assumptions. (Note: To get a better efficiency, Lycs should build a small percentage of homes so they have more employable peasants. That will cause these build strats to vary more widely than the Icekin builds.) Lycanthrope Build with 20% Smithies Homes:3.5% Barracks:37.4% Farms:11.72% Smithies:20% Ore Mines:6.75% Diamond Mines:9.64% Lumberyards:4% Towers:5% Dock:2% Results Military:14958 Peasants:11403 Total Pop:26361 Draft Rate:57% Employment:103.67% Income:40025 Lycanthrope Build with 20% Alchemies Homes:3.5% Barracks:37.4% Farms:11.72% Alchemies:20% Ore Mines:8.75% Diamond Mines:7.64% Lumberyards:4% Towers:5% Dock:2% Results Military:14958 Peasants:11403 Total Pop:26361 Draft Rate:57% Employment:103.67% Income:50425 Lycanthrope Build with 20% Masonries Homes:2% Barracks:36.51% Farms:10.98% Masonries:20% Ore Mines:7.75% Diamond Mines:11.75% Lumberyards:4% Towers:5% Dock:2% Results Military:14605 Peasants:11886 Total Pop:26491 Draft Rate:55% Employment:103.46% Income:42683 Again, alchemies have a slight edge over smithies. When the DPA and OPA are changed to 60 and 45 the number of smithies, alchemies, and masonries must be lowered to around 5% so you can have enough diamond mines to maintain your improvements. Even so, alchemies still edge out smithies and masonries, so it look like you're right. For races that have a good plat bonus, alchemies make the most sense. |
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LiveWire
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heyhey TimMyth
replied on: 5/30/2003 4:34:52 PM to explain, i was just playin around with diff builds and numbers with a set amount of plat per hour and such. i didnt actually calc out the entire build, i just gave a set landsize (1750 acres for example) and a set plat/hour (42000 for example) then used smithys or alchs. one thing i left out is the 20 peasants employed by each building but if i had included that i wouldve needed to calc the entire build. |
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J-Roc[LoC]
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heyhey TimMyth
replied on: 5/31/2003 1:19:19 PM Tim, where are the links to the sheets you made that are public? thanks. |
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Regis
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heyhey TimMyth
replied on: 5/31/2003 4:47:25 PM http://www.nbinternet.com/tsmith/ |
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J-Roc[LoC]
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heyhey TimMyth
replied on: 6/1/2003 12:28:44 AM Thanks. Man, that Round 17 sheet is a beast. |
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J-Roc[LoC]
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heyhey TimMyth
replied on: 6/1/2003 12:42:37 AM oh, and great documentation and formatting. very easy to figure out how to use imo. great use of the colors scheme. |
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Tim_Myth
*Moderator* Quote | Reply | |
heyhey TimMyth
replied on: 6/2/2003 3:46:55 PM The colors were a feeble attempt to make it somewhat user friendly. Once you learn where to plug all the numbers in, it does work well though. I need to try to make that learning curve an actual curve rather than a sudden brick wall. BTW, I think I have worked many of the kinks out of the round 18 efficiency sheet. It is posted andd available for download. Without the new improvement formulas though, that section is really just guess-work. Do what you can with it. |
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J-Roc[LoC]
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heyhey TimMyth
replied on: 6/2/2003 8:09:25 PM awesome on Round 18 man. I'll get to work on finding those kinks right away lolthnaks! |
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